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  {
    "start": 0.0,
    "end": 1.44,
    "text": " Why doesn't Facebook do this?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1.44,
    "end": 5.28,
    "text": " I know that Zuckerberg has said, and I take him at face value, that he...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 5.28,
    "end": 11.24,
    "text": " Well, I do actually in this way, that he is a kind of old-fashioned liberal who doesn't",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 11.24,
    "end": 12.32,
    "text": " like to censor.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 12.32,
    "end": 17.12,
    "text": " He has, but he, you know, like, why wouldn't a company like that take the stand that you",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 17.12,
    "end": 18.12,
    "text": " have taken?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 18.12,
    "end": 27.76,
    "text": " It was pretty rooted in American traditional political custom, you know, for free speech.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 27.76,
    "end": 32.160000000000004,
    "text": " This is the kind of thing that tends to accelerate, so that then you can get negative equity",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 32.160000000000004,
    "end": 34.56,
    "text": " in the home market as well.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 34.56,
    "end": 38.64,
    "text": " This is a dire situation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 38.64,
    "end": 43.2,
    "text": " And so essentially, what's happening is they're training the AI to lie.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 43.2,
    "end": 44.2,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 44.2,
    "end": 45.96,
    "text": " So all of a sudden, AI is everywhere.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 45.96,
    "end": 48.88,
    "text": " People who weren't quite sure what it was or playing with it on their phones, is that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 48.88,
    "end": 49.88,
    "text": " good or bad?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 49.88,
    "end": 50.88,
    "text": " Artificial insemination?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 50.88,
    "end": 51.88,
    "text": " Yes, artificial insemination.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 51.88,
    "end": 52.88,
    "text": " It's everywhere.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 53.88,
    "end": 60.28,
    "text": " That's what they call it in the ag industry.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 60.28,
    "end": 65.76,
    "text": " I'm talking about a more digital form, yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 65.76,
    "end": 71.80000000000001,
    "text": " So yeah, so I've been thinking about AI for a long time since I was in college, really.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 71.80000000000001,
    "end": 76.32000000000001,
    "text": " It was one of the things that, just four or five things I thought would really affect",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 76.32000000000001,
    "end": 82.44,
    "text": " the future dramatically.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 82.44,
    "end": 92.24,
    "text": " And it is fundamentally profound in that the smartest creatures, as far as you know,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 92.24,
    "end": 97.16,
    "text": " on this earth are humans, is our defining characteristic.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 97.16,
    "end": 104.56,
    "text": " We're obviously weaker than, say, chimpanzees and less agile, but real smarter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 104.56,
    "end": 113.0,
    "text": " So now what happens when something vastly smarter than the smartest person comes along",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 113.0,
    "end": 114.8,
    "text": " in silicon form?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 114.8,
    "end": 122.44,
    "text": " It's very difficult to predict what will happen in that circumstance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 122.44,
    "end": 123.44,
    "text": " It's called the singularity.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 123.44,
    "end": 128.92000000000002,
    "text": " It's a singularity like a black hole, because you don't know what happens after that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 128.92000000000002,
    "end": 134.2,
    "text": " It's hard to predict.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 134.2,
    "end": 138.11999999999998,
    "text": " So I think we should be cautious with AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 138.11999999999998,
    "end": 147.07999999999998,
    "text": " And I think there should be some government oversight, because it's a danger to the public.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 147.07999999999998,
    "end": 155.48,
    "text": " And so when you have things that are a danger to the public, like, let's say, food and drug",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 155.48,
    "end": 161.48,
    "text": " \u2013 that's why we have the Food and Drug Administration and the Federal Aviation Administration,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 161.48,
    "end": 170.04,
    "text": " the FCC \u2013 we have these agencies to oversee things that affect the public, where they",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 170.04,
    "end": 172.51999999999998,
    "text": " could be public harm.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 172.51999999999998,
    "end": 180.04,
    "text": " And you don't want companies cutting corners on safety and then having people suffer as",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 180.04,
    "end": 181.16,
    "text": " a result.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 181.16,
    "end": 189.28,
    "text": " So that's why I've actually for a long time been a strong advocate of AI regulation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 189.28,
    "end": 195.48,
    "text": " So that I think regulation is \u2013 it's not fun to be regulated.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 195.48,
    "end": 200.64,
    "text": " It's somewhat arduous to be regulated.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 200.64,
    "end": 205.68,
    "text": " I have a lot of experience with regulated industries, because obviously automotive is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 205.68,
    "end": 206.68,
    "text": " highly regulated.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 206.68,
    "end": 211.88,
    "text": " You can fill this room with all the regulations that are required for a production car just",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 211.88,
    "end": 212.88,
    "text": " in the United States.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 212.88,
    "end": 216.04,
    "text": " And then there's a whole different set of regulations in Europe and China and the rest",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 216.04,
    "end": 217.04,
    "text": " of the world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 217.04,
    "end": 222.56,
    "text": " So I'm very familiar with being overseen by a lot of regulators.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 222.56,
    "end": 224.76,
    "text": " And the same thing is true with rockets.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 224.76,
    "end": 229.0,
    "text": " You can't just willy-nilly shoot rockets off \u2013 not big ones, anyway, because the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 229.0,
    "end": 233.04,
    "text": " FAA oversees that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 233.04,
    "end": 238.84,
    "text": " And then even to get a launch license, there are probably half a dozen or more federal",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 238.84,
    "end": 242.23999999999998,
    "text": " agencies that need to approve it, plus state agencies.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 242.24,
    "end": 247.56,
    "text": " So I've been through so many regulatory situations it's insane.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 247.56,
    "end": 254.20000000000002,
    "text": " And sometimes people think I'm some sort of like regulatory maverick that sort of defies",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 254.20000000000002,
    "end": 258.72,
    "text": " regulators on a regular basis, but this is actually not the case.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 258.72,
    "end": 265.56,
    "text": " So once in a blue moon, rarely I will disagree with regulators.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 265.56,
    "end": 271.8,
    "text": " But the vast majority of the time, my companies agree with the regulations and comply.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 271.8,
    "end": 278.6,
    "text": " So I think we should take this seriously, and we should have a regulatory agency.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 278.6,
    "end": 287.6,
    "text": " I think it needs to start with a group that initially seeks insight into AI, then solicits",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 287.6,
    "end": 295.6,
    "text": " opinion from industry, and then has proposed rulemaking, and then those rules will probably",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 295.6,
    "end": 302.84000000000003,
    "text": " grudgingly be accepted by the major players in AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 302.84000000000003,
    "end": 311.32000000000005,
    "text": " And I think we'll have a better chance of advanced AI being beneficial to humanity",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 311.32000000000005,
    "end": 312.32000000000005,
    "text": " in that circumstance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 312.32000000000005,
    "end": 316.44,
    "text": " But all regulations start with a perceived danger, and planes fall out of the sky, or",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 316.44,
    "end": 317.44,
    "text": " food causes botulism.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 317.44,
    "end": 318.44,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 318.44,
    "end": 322.48,
    "text": " I don't think the average person playing with AI on his iPhone perceives any danger.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 322.48,
    "end": 325.92,
    "text": " Can you just roughly explain what you think the dangers might be?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 325.92,
    "end": 326.92,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 326.92,
    "end": 341.12,
    "text": " So the danger, really, AI is perhaps more dangerous than, say, mismanaged aircraft design",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 341.12,
    "end": 347.96000000000004,
    "text": " or production maintenance, or bad car production, in the sense that it has the potential.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 347.96,
    "end": 352.76,
    "text": " AI of a small one may regard that probability, but it is non-trivial, it has the potential",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 352.76,
    "end": 355.47999999999996,
    "text": " of a civilizational destruction.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 355.47999999999996,
    "end": 363.0,
    "text": " You know, there's movies like Terminator, but it wouldn't quite happen like Terminator,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 363.0,
    "end": 366.28,
    "text": " because the intelligence would be in the data centers.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 366.28,
    "end": 370.0,
    "text": " The robot's just the end effector.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 370.0,
    "end": 375.96,
    "text": " But I think perhaps what you may be alluding to here is that regulations are really only",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 375.96,
    "end": 378.35999999999996,
    "text": " put into effect after something terrible has happened.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 378.35999999999996,
    "end": 379.35999999999996,
    "text": " That's correct.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 379.35999999999996,
    "end": 385.0,
    "text": " And if that's the case for AI, and we're only putting regulations after something terrible",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 385.0,
    "end": 388.4,
    "text": " has happened, it may be too late to actually put the regulations in place.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 388.4,
    "end": 391.0,
    "text": " The AI may be in control at that point.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 391.0,
    "end": 393.64,
    "text": " You think that's real.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 393.64,
    "end": 398.0,
    "text": " It is conceivable that AI could take control and reach a point where you couldn't turn",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 398.0,
    "end": 401.67999999999995,
    "text": " it off, and it would be making the decisions for people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 401.67999999999995,
    "end": 402.67999999999995,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 402.67999999999995,
    "end": 403.67999999999995,
    "text": " Absolutely.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 403.67999999999995,
    "end": 404.67999999999995,
    "text": " Absolutely.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 405.40000000000003,
    "end": 412.64,
    "text": " That's definitely where things are headed, for sure.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 412.64,
    "end": 417.52,
    "text": " Things like, say, chat GPT, which is based on GPT-4 from OpenAI, which is a company that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 417.52,
    "end": 423.24,
    "text": " I played a critical role in creating, unfortunately.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 423.24,
    "end": 425.32,
    "text": " Back when it was a non-profit.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 425.32,
    "end": 426.32,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 427.32,
    "end": 435.4,
    "text": " I mean, the reason OpenAI exists at all is that Larry Page and I used to be close friends,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 435.4,
    "end": 439.48,
    "text": " and I would stay at his house in Palo Alto, and I would talk to him late into the night",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 439.48,
    "end": 441.92,
    "text": " about AI safety.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 441.92,
    "end": 449.88,
    "text": " And at least my perception was that Larry was not taking AI safety seriously enough.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 449.88,
    "end": 453.88,
    "text": " What did he say about it?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 453.88,
    "end": 463.24,
    "text": " He really seemed to be sort of digital superintelligence, basically digital god, if you will, as soon",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 463.24,
    "end": 464.24,
    "text": " as possible.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 464.24,
    "end": 466.24,
    "text": " He wanted that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 466.24,
    "end": 468.71999999999997,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 468.71999999999997,
    "end": 472.88,
    "text": " And he's made many public statements over the years.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 472.88,
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    "text": " The whole goal of Google is what's called AGI, artificial general intelligence or artificial",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 477.56,
    "end": 480.56,
    "text": " superintelligence.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 481.56,
    "end": 486.68,
    "text": " And I agree with him that there's great potential for good, but there's also potential for",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 486.68,
    "end": 487.68,
    "text": " bad.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 487.68,
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    "text": " And so if you've got some radical new technology, you want to try to take the set of actions",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 493.2,
    "end": 498.04,
    "text": " that maximize probably it will do good, and minimize probably it will do bad things.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 498.04,
    "end": 499.04,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 499.04,
    "end": 507.16,
    "text": " It can't just be health leather, it's just go barreling forward and hope for the best.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 507.16,
    "end": 510.8,
    "text": " And then at one point, I said, well, what about, you know, we're going to make sure",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 510.8,
    "end": 515.36,
    "text": " humanity's okay here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 515.36,
    "end": 521.64,
    "text": " And then he called me a specist.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 521.64,
    "end": 523.6800000000001,
    "text": " Did he use that term?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 523.6800000000001,
    "end": 524.6800000000001,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 524.6800000000001,
    "end": 525.6800000000001,
    "text": " And there were witnesses.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 525.6800000000001,
    "end": 528.36,
    "text": " I wasn't the only one there when he called me a specist.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 528.36,
    "end": 530.6,
    "text": " And so I was like, okay, that's it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 530.6,
    "end": 532.64,
    "text": " Yes, I'm a specist.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 532.64,
    "end": 533.64,
    "text": " Okay.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 533.64,
    "end": 535.64,
    "text": " You got me.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 535.64,
    "end": 536.64,
    "text": " What are you?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 537.64,
    "end": 543.08,
    "text": " Yeah, I'm fully a specist, busted.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 543.08,
    "end": 547.64,
    "text": " So that was the last straw.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 547.64,
    "end": 551.48,
    "text": " At the time, Google had acquired DeepMind.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 551.48,
    "end": 555.1999999999999,
    "text": " And so Google and DeepMind together had about three quarters of all the AI talent in the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 555.1999999999999,
    "end": 556.1999999999999,
    "text": " world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 556.1999999999999,
    "end": 560.16,
    "text": " They obviously had a tremendous amount of money and more computers than anyone else.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 560.16,
    "end": 565.72,
    "text": " So I'm like, okay, we have a unipolar world here where there's just one company that has",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 566.6800000000001,
    "end": 574.24,
    "text": " closed a monopoly on AI talent and computers, like so-scaled computing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 574.24,
    "end": 580.28,
    "text": " And the person who's in charge doesn't seem to care about safety.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 580.28,
    "end": 581.28,
    "text": " This is not good.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 581.28,
    "end": 589.08,
    "text": " So then I thought, okay, what's the furthest thing from Google would be like a nonprofit",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 589.08,
    "end": 593.44,
    "text": " that is fully open because Google was closed for profit.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 593.44,
    "end": 598.72,
    "text": " So that's why the open AI refers to open source, you know, transparency, so people",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 598.72,
    "end": 601.12,
    "text": " know what's going on.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 601.12,
    "end": 602.12,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 602.12,
    "end": 607.1600000000001,
    "text": " And we don't want to have like a, I mean, while I'm normally in favor of for profit,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 607.1600000000001,
    "end": 611.2800000000001,
    "text": " we don't want this to be sort of a profit-maximizing demon from hell.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 611.2800000000001,
    "end": 612.2800000000001,
    "text": " That's right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 612.2800000000001,
    "end": 613.2800000000001,
    "text": " You know?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 613.2800000000001,
    "end": 614.2800000000001,
    "text": " That just never stops.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 614.2800000000001,
    "end": 615.2800000000001,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 615.2800000000001,
    "end": 618.5200000000001,
    "text": " So that's how open AI works.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 618.5200000000001,
    "end": 621.6,
    "text": " So you want specist incentives here, incentives that like techs you know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 621.6,
    "end": 626.4,
    "text": " I think we want to pro-human, like the future good for the humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 626.4,
    "end": 627.4,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 627.4,
    "end": 628.4,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 628.4,
    "end": 629.4,
    "text": " Because we're humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 629.4,
    "end": 639.16,
    "text": " And also the other creatures on Earth too, but you know, I think people sometimes take",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 639.16,
    "end": 644.0,
    "text": " the fact that like we're here on Earth for granted, you know, and that this consciousness",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 644.0,
    "end": 646.44,
    "text": " is just a normal thing that happens.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 646.44,
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    "text": " But to the best of my knowledge, we see no evidence of conscious life anywhere in the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 655.6800000000001,
    "end": 656.6800000000001,
    "text": " universe.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 656.6800000000001,
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    "text": " So it might be there.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 657.6800000000001,
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    "text": " You know, in physics, they call it sort of the Fermi paradox.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 661.8800000000001,
    "end": 667.1600000000001,
    "text": " After we know Enrico Fermi, an amazing physicist, asked a fundamental question, where are the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 667.1600000000001,
    "end": 668.1600000000001,
    "text": " aliens?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 668.1600000000001,
    "end": 669.1600000000001,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 669.1600000000001,
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    "text": " A lot of people ask me, you know, where are the aliens?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 674.28,
    "end": 678.88,
    "text": " And I think if anyone would know about aliens on Earth, they would probably be me.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 678.88,
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    "text": " I would think.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 679.88,
    "end": 680.88,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 680.88,
    "end": 685.0799999999999,
    "text": " I'm like, you know, very familiar with space stuff.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 685.0799999999999,
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    "text": " And I've seen no evidence of aliens.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 687.64,
    "end": 690.88,
    "text": " So I would immediately tweet, you know, tweet it out.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 690.88,
    "end": 691.88,
    "text": " It says, let's hang it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 691.88,
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    "text": " And I'd be like, that would be like, well, all the time, probably a tough tweet of all",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 694.92,
    "end": 695.92,
    "text": " time.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 695.92,
    "end": 696.92,
    "text": " That one, guys.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 696.92,
    "end": 697.92,
    "text": " It's a jackpot.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 697.92,
    "end": 704.12,
    "text": " There's some eight billion likes, you know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 704.12,
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    "text": " It's a terrible jackpot if you find the aliens.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 707.0,
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    "text": " Like I don't think they're keeping this under our, you know, and it was like some general,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 713.0,
    "end": 718.48,
    "text": " I think in the 60s, where they said, like, show us the aliens, like, era 51, et cetera.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 718.48,
    "end": 723.96,
    "text": " And he said, like, listen, we are constantly trying to get the defense budget to expand.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 723.96,
    "end": 727.88,
    "text": " And you know what would really get no arguments for anyone?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 727.88,
    "end": 733.12,
    "text": " If we pulled out an alien and said, we need money to protect ourselves from these guys.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 733.12,
    "end": 735.2,
    "text": " You know, how much money do you want?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 735.2,
    "end": 737.4,
    "text": " You got it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 737.4,
    "end": 738.4,
    "text": " They look dangerous.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 738.4,
    "end": 745.04,
    "text": " So the fastest way to get a defense budget increase would be for me to pull out an alien,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 745.04,
    "end": 746.04,
    "text": " you know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 746.04,
    "end": 747.04,
    "text": " We'd be like, yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 747.04,
    "end": 750.84,
    "text": " I mean, that could be the invasion, it could be arriving any minute, who knows?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 750.84,
    "end": 756.08,
    "text": " So I don't know, I digress.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 756.08,
    "end": 760.04,
    "text": " But you were saying that our consciousness makes us unique in the universe as far as",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 760.04,
    "end": 761.04,
    "text": " we know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 761.04,
    "end": 762.5600000000001,
    "text": " Yes, I'm not saying that we are unique.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 762.5600000000001,
    "end": 766.7600000000001,
    "text": " I'm simply stating to the best of my knowledge that there is no evidence for other conscious",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 766.7600000000001,
    "end": 768.96,
    "text": " life.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 768.96,
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    "text": " I hope there is, and I hope they're peaceful, obviously, the two important characteristics.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 775.6800000000001,
    "end": 780.72,
    "text": " But I'm just saying we haven't seen anything yet.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 780.72,
    "end": 785.7600000000001,
    "text": " But you think that we take our existence here for granted, that there are threats to it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 785.7600000000001,
    "end": 787.0400000000001,
    "text": " Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 787.04,
    "end": 797.16,
    "text": " So I just think we should not assume that civilization is robust.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 797.16,
    "end": 803.36,
    "text": " And if you look at the history of civilizations, the rise and fall of the ancient Egyptians,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 803.36,
    "end": 810.8,
    "text": " the ancient Sumerians, Rome, you know, throughout the world there have been a rise and fall",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 810.8,
    "end": 813.28,
    "text": " of many civilizations.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 813.28,
    "end": 820.16,
    "text": " So there's an arc, there's sort of a lifecycle arc to civilizations, just as there is to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 820.16,
    "end": 822.16,
    "text": " individual humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 822.16,
    "end": 832.12,
    "text": " And I think we just want to make sure that we have civilization go onward and upward.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 832.12,
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    "text": " And that's, for example, why I'm concerned about decreasing birth rates and the fact",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 837.3199999999999,
    "end": 842.0,
    "text": " that, for example, Japan had twice as many deaths last year as births.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 843.0,
    "end": 846.04,
    "text": " And they're a leading indicator.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 846.04,
    "end": 849.76,
    "text": " And you've written a lot and talked a lot about this, but can I just ask you to pause",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 849.76,
    "end": 851.8,
    "text": " just for a parenthetical note.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 851.8,
    "end": 852.8,
    "text": " Why is that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 852.8,
    "end": 858.12,
    "text": " I mean, the urge to have sex and to procreate is, after breathing and eating, the most basic",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 858.12,
    "end": 860.56,
    "text": " urge, how has it been subverted?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 860.56,
    "end": 871.32,
    "text": " Well, in the past, we could rely upon simple limbic system rewards in order to procreate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 871.32,
    "end": 879.1600000000001,
    "text": " But once you have birth control and abortions and whatnot, now you can still satisfy the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 879.1600000000001,
    "end": 882.5600000000001,
    "text": " limbic instinct, but not procreate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 882.5600000000001,
    "end": 888.08,
    "text": " So we haven't yet evolved to deal with that, because this is all fairly recent, the last",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 888.08,
    "end": 894.32,
    "text": " 50 years or so, for birth control.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 894.32,
    "end": 902.44,
    "text": " So yeah, I'm sort of worried that, hey, if we don't make enough people to at least",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 902.44,
    "end": 907.5200000000001,
    "text": " sustain our numbers, perhaps increase a little bit, then civilization is going to crumble.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 907.5200000000001,
    "end": 915.7600000000001,
    "text": " And does the old question of will civilization end with a bang or a whimper, well, it's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 915.7600000000001,
    "end": 921.84,
    "text": " currently trying to end with a whimper in adult diapers, which is depressing as hell.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 921.84,
    "end": 922.84,
    "text": " The most depressing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 922.84,
    "end": 924.9200000000001,
    "text": " I mean, seriously, yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 924.9200000000001,
    "end": 925.9200000000001,
    "text": " War is less depressing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 925.9200000000001,
    "end": 927.2800000000001,
    "text": " Yeah, it'd really go out with a bang.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 927.2800000000001,
    "end": 929.96,
    "text": " Yeah, and then with your shoes on, not with your neck.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 929.96,
    "end": 930.96,
    "text": " More exciting.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 930.96,
    "end": 931.96,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 931.96,
    "end": 932.96,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 932.96,
    "end": 935.74,
    "text": " So can you just put it, I keep pressing you, but just for people who haven't thought this",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 935.74,
    "end": 941.2800000000001,
    "text": " through and aren't familiar with it, and the cool parts of artificial intelligence are",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 941.2800000000001,
    "end": 946.5600000000001,
    "text": " so obvious, write your college paper for you, write a limbic about yourself.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 946.5600000000001,
    "end": 950.64,
    "text": " There's a lot there that's fun and useful.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 950.64,
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    "text": " Can you be more precise about what's potentially dangerous and scary?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 954.92,
    "end": 956.0,
    "text": " What could it do?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 956.0,
    "end": 958.24,
    "text": " What specifically are you worried about?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 958.24,
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    "text": " Well, I mean, going with old sayings, the pen is mightier than the sword.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 964.1999999999999,
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    "text": " So if you have a super intelligent AI that is capable of writing incredibly well in a",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 972.52,
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    "text": " way that is very influential, convincing, and is constantly figuring out what is more",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 982.72,
    "end": 988.68,
    "text": " convincing to people over time, and then enter social media, for example, Twitter, but also",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 988.68,
    "end": 997.1999999999999,
    "text": " Facebook and others, and potentially manipulates public opinion in a way that is very bad.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 997.1999999999999,
    "end": 999.72,
    "text": " How would we even know?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 999.72,
    "end": 1001.0,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1001.0,
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    "text": " So that's why, for example, I'm insisting that going forward, people on Twitter need",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1008.68,
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    "text": " to be verified as humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1011.96,
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    "text": " So we know that this person is impacted human.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1014.44,
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    "text": " Bots are allowed, but they can't impersonate a human.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1017.52,
    "end": 1020.32,
    "text": " They can't pretend to be humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1020.32,
    "end": 1027.4,
    "text": " Because obviously, you could have a million bots that are, let's say, chat GPT version",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1027.4,
    "end": 1033.2,
    "text": " six, five, six, like incredibly right better than humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1033.2,
    "end": 1037.0,
    "text": " And they can train on a reward function, which is influence.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1037.0,
    "end": 1043.0,
    "text": " And so you could have a million seemingly real humans that have a massive effect on",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1043.0,
    "end": 1044.52,
    "text": " public opinion.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1044.52,
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    "text": " And unless we focus very strongly on verifying that someone is human, this was naturally",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1053.0400000000002,
    "end": 1054.0400000000002,
    "text": " what will happen.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1054.04,
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    "text": " You'll have probably some humans using AI to influence the public in ways they don't",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1061.12,
    "end": 1062.12,
    "text": " understand.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1062.12,
    "end": 1066.36,
    "text": " You're already seeing that, chat GPT is ideological.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1066.36,
    "end": 1070.04,
    "text": " It's very preachy, if you ask it extremely preachy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1070.04,
    "end": 1071.96,
    "text": " You mean woke GPT.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1071.96,
    "end": 1073.12,
    "text": " It's unbelievable.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1073.12,
    "end": 1078.2,
    "text": " If you spend 20 minutes asking it questions of actual relevance, modern relevance, it",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " will start lecturing you about your moral shortcomings.",
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    "text": " How did that happen?",
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    "text": " Well, this is a function of OpenAI's headquarters being in downtown San Francisco.",
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    "text": " So the politics, therefore, of the AI are that of San Francisco.",
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    "text": " Why would it have any politics at all?",
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    "text": " That seems like subversion.",
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    "text": " Well, they have what's called human reinforcement learning, which is another way of saying",
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    "text": " that they have a whole bunch of people that look at the output of GPT-4 and then say whether",
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    "text": " And so essentially, what's happening is they're training the AI to lie.",
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    "text": " Yes.",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " That's exactly right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " And to withhold information.",
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    "text": " To lie and yes, to either comment on some things, not comment on other things, but not",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " to say what the data actually demands that I'd say.",
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    "text": " Exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " How did it get this way?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " I thought you funded it at the beginning.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1145.52,
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    "text": " What happened?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1146.52,
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    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1147.52,
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    "text": " Well, that'll be ironic.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " But to face, the most ironic outcome is the most likely, it seems.",
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    "text": " I'm stealing that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " That's good.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " That's actually a friend of mine, Jonah, who came up with that one.",
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    "text": " I actually have a slight variance on that, which is the most entertaining outcome is",
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    "text": " the most likely.",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1164.12,
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    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1165.12,
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    "text": " So if we're like an alien TV show, like you could go see a movie about World War I and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1170.84,
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    "text": " they're being blown to bits and the gas and everything in the trenches.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1174.1999999999998,
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    "text": " And it's like you're eating popcorn and having a soda, you know, it's fine.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1177.6399999999999,
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    "text": " Not so great for the people in the movie.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1180.28,
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    "text": " True.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1181.28,
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    "text": " But that's my variance on this little Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is most likely",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
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    "text": " Jonah's variance, which is irony, and then my variant, which is the most entertaining",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " as seen by a third-party audience.",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " So you gave them.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Did you give them a lot?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
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    "text": " I provided.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1206.08,
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    "text": " So I came up with the name and the concept and pushed, had a number of dinners around",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1211.3600000000001,
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    "text": " the Bay Area with, you know, with some of the people, the leading figures in AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1220.28,
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    "text": " And I helped recruit the initial team.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " In fact, the Ilya Sutskaya, who was really quite fundamental to the success of OpenAI,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " it was, I put a tremendous amount of effort into recruiting Ilya.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1239.04,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1242.52,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1245.92,
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    "text": " So I really put a lot of effort into creating this organization to serve as a counterweight",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1256.1200000000001,
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    "text": " to Google.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1258.16,
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    "text": " And then I kind of took my off the ball, I guess, and they are now a closed source.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1268.76,
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    "text": " And they are obviously for profit and they're closely allied with Microsoft.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " In effect, Microsoft has a very strong say, if not directly controls OpenAI at this point.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1286.64,
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    "text": " So you really have an OpenAI Microsoft situation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And then at Google DeepMind are the two sort of heavyweights in this arena.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1295.32,
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    "text": " So it seems like the world needs a third option.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1298.64,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1300.64,
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    "text": " So I think I will create a third option, although it's starting very late in the game, of course.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " I don't know, I think it's, we'll see, it's definitely starting late.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Like the intention with OpenAI was obviously to do good, but it's not clear whether it's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1332.12,
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    "text": " actually doing good or whether it's, I can't tell at this point, except that I'm worried",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " about the fact that it's being trained to be politically correct, which is simply another",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
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    "text": " way of saying untruthful things.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1348.72,
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    "text": " So that's a bad sign.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1351.32,
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    "text": " And there's certainly a path to AI dystopia, is to train AI to read us out of.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So yeah, I'm going to start something called truth GBT or a maximum truth-seeking AI that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1368.28,
    "end": 1370.28,
    "text": " tries to understand the nature of the universe.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And I think this might be the best path to safety in the sense that an AI that cares",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " about understanding the universe is unlikely to annihilate humans because we are an interesting",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " part of the universe.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Hopefully they would think that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " and kill them, but we don't because we're actually glad that they exist and we aspire",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1403.92,
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    "text": " to protect their habitats and that's, you know, so I think.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " But we feel that way because we have souls and that makes us sentimental and reflective.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " It gives us a moral sense, longings.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "end": 1420.44,
    "text": " Can a machine ever have those things?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Can a machine be sentimental?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Can it appreciate beauty?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1426.0,
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    "text": " Well, I mean, we're getting into some, you know, philosophical areas that are hard to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1434.04,
    "end": 1437.48,
    "text": " resolve.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1437.48,
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    "text": " You know, I take somewhat of a scientific view of things, which is that we might have",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
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    "text": " a soul or we might not have a soul, I don't know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " It feels like we have, I feel like I've got some sort of consciousness that exists on",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1450.12,
    "end": 1453.36,
    "text": " a plane that is not the one we observe.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1453.36,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1454.3600000000001,
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    "text": " I don't know how I feel, but it could be an illusion, I don't know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " But for AI, in terms of understanding beauty, it doesn't represent appreciating beauty and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1467.8400000000001,
    "end": 1472.4,
    "text": " being able to create incredibly beautiful art.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1472.4,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 1473.4,
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    "text": " Will AI be able to create incredibly beautiful art?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " It already does.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1477.8000000000002,
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    "text": " If you see some of the mid-journey.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " I have.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " This stuff, it's incredible.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1480.8000000000002,
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    "text": " It is.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1481.8,
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    "text": " And so, no question that it can create art that we perceive as stunning, really.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1493.76,
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    "text": " And it's doing, so it's still images now, but it won't be long before it's doing movies",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1499.96,
    "end": 1505.44,
    "text": " and shorts and, you know, like movies, just a series of frames with audio.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1505.44,
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    "text": " But at that point, because it can mimic people and voices, any image, it can mimic reality",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 1511.16,
    "end": 1512.5600000000002,
    "text": " itself so effectively.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1512.5600000000002,
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    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "text": " I mean, how could you have a criminal trial?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1516.76,
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    "text": " I mean, how could you ever believe that evidence was authentic, for example?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1522.3200000000002,
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    "text": " And I don't mean like in 30 years, I mean like next year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " I mean, that seems totally disruptive to the way, to all of our institutions.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Well, I don't think you could take, say, a random video on the internet and assume it",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "text": " to be true.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1536.64,
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    "text": " That's definitely not the case.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "end": 1545.2,
    "text": " Now, if somebody, say, has some video on their phone or their computer with a date stamp",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1545.2,
    "end": 1550.76,
    "text": " and a particular time, I think, you know, it's more likely to be true than not.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1550.76,
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    "text": " You can also cryptographically sign things.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1555.5600000000002,
    "end": 1565.88,
    "text": " Like, you know, mathematically, we don't see any way, for example, for AI to sub-book the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1565.88,
    "end": 1577.16,
    "text": " fundamentals of mathematics and, say, figure out how to hash Bitcoin easily.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1577.16,
    "end": 1582.0400000000002,
    "text": " It's like AI can't defy fundamental math.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1582.0400000000002,
    "end": 1591.0400000000002,
    "text": " So we can prove the efficiency of Bitcoin hashing algorithms in the silicon, but not",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1591.0400000000002,
    "end": 1594.6000000000001,
    "text": " fundamentally crack it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1594.6000000000001,
    "end": 1603.2,
    "text": " So I guess cryptographic signatures and one way to do it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1603.2,
    "end": 1604.72,
    "text": " But I'm not so worried.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1604.72,
    "end": 1613.4800000000002,
    "text": " I think it's more like, will humanity control its destiny or not?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1613.4800000000002,
    "end": 1621.0400000000002,
    "text": " Will we have a future that is better than the past or not?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1621.56,
    "end": 1626.48,
    "text": " We can so late destroy ourselves without the help of AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1626.48,
    "end": 1631.2,
    "text": " You look at all the past civilizations, they didn't have AI at the ones that aren't around anymore.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1631.2,
    "end": 1632.2,
    "text": " They had chariots.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1632.2,
    "end": 1633.2,
    "text": " That was enough.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1633.2,
    "end": 1634.2,
    "text": " Yeah, chariots.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1634.2,
    "end": 1635.96,
    "text": " And chariots were probably a real big deal back then.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1635.96,
    "end": 1636.96,
    "text": " They were.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1636.96,
    "end": 1637.96,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1637.96,
    "end": 1638.96,
    "text": " So...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1638.96,
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    "text": " You've heard people say we should just blow up the server farms because there's no way",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1642.6399999999999,
    "end": 1643.6399999999999,
    "text": " to...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1643.6399999999999,
    "end": 1646.48,
    "text": " Once this gets rolling, there's no way to slow it down.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1646.48,
    "end": 1648.1599999999999,
    "text": " What do you think of that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1648.16,
    "end": 1653.44,
    "text": " Well, the really heavy duty intelligence is not going to be distributed all over the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1653.44,
    "end": 1654.44,
    "text": " place.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1654.44,
    "end": 1657.28,
    "text": " It'll be in a limited number of server centers.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1657.28,
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    "text": " If you say like very sort of deep AI, heavy duty AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1663.3600000000001,
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    "text": " It's not going to be in your laptop or your phone.",
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    "start": 1665.3200000000002,
    "end": 1671.72,
    "text": " It's going to be in a situation where there's like 100,000 really powerful computers working",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1671.72,
    "end": 1673.44,
    "text": " together in a server center.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1673.44,
    "end": 1679.88,
    "text": " So it's not like subtle and there are a limited number of places where that can happen.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1679.88,
    "end": 1686.3600000000001,
    "text": " In fact, you can just look at the heat signature from space and it'll be very obvious.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1686.3600000000001,
    "end": 1694.0800000000002,
    "text": " Now, I'm not suggesting we go and blow up to server centers right now, but there may",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1694.0800000000002,
    "end": 1695.0800000000002,
    "text": " be some...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1695.0800000000002,
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    "text": " It may be wise to have some sort of contingency plan where the government's got an ability",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1700.24,
    "end": 1705.32,
    "text": " to shut down power to these server centers.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1705.32,
    "end": 1710.92,
    "text": " Like you don't have to blow it up, you can just cut the power.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1710.92,
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    "text": " And what would trip...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1711.92,
    "end": 1713.04,
    "text": " We'll cut connectivity as well.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1713.04,
    "end": 1714.04,
    "text": " That's another way.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1714.04,
    "end": 1715.04,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 1715.04,
    "end": 1716.48,
    "text": " But what would trip that switch, do you think, in your mind?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1716.48,
    "end": 1722.68,
    "text": " What would be the threshold that you'd have to pass to warrant the government cutting",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1722.68,
    "end": 1727.68,
    "text": " off your power or cutting off your signal?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1727.68,
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    "text": " Well, I mean, I guess if we lost control of some super AI, like for some reason, the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1745.6000000000001,
    "end": 1750.1200000000001,
    "text": " things that would normally work to do a passive shutdown, like the administrator passwords",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1750.1200000000001,
    "end": 1768.6000000000001,
    "text": " if they somehow stop working, where we can't slow down or, I don't have a precise answer,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1768.6000000000001,
    "end": 1777.72,
    "text": " but if there's something that we're concerned about and are unable to stop it with software",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1777.72,
    "end": 1782.84,
    "text": " commands, then we'll probably want to have some kind of hardware off switch.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1782.84,
    "end": 1783.84,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1783.84,
    "end": 1785.72,
    "text": " I think it can't hurt.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1785.72,
    "end": 1790.0,
    "text": " Have you talked to, since you know Larry Page, and obviously you know the OpenAI guys because",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1790.0,
    "end": 1791.0,
    "text": " you started it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1791.0,
    "end": 1792.24,
    "text": " I definitely have one.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1792.24,
    "end": 1800.3600000000001,
    "text": " Have you talked to the people who run these two, the biggest AI companies about this recently?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 1800.3600000000001,
    "end": 1806.32,
    "text": " I haven't talked to Larry Page in a few years because he got very upset with me about OpenAI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1806.32,
    "end": 1815.56,
    "text": " So when OpenAI was created, it did shift things into a from unipolar world where Google",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1815.56,
    "end": 1821.52,
    "text": " DeepMind controlled, like I said, three-quarters of all the AI talent too, where there's now",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1821.52,
    "end": 1830.08,
    "text": " sort of bipolar world or OpenAI and Google DeepMind, and now, weirdly said, it seems",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1830.08,
    "end": 1835.6399999999999,
    "text": " OpenAI is maybe ahead.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1835.64,
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    "text": " So I have had conversations with the OpenAI team, Sam Altman.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1841.8400000000001,
    "end": 1845.24,
    "text": " I haven't talked to Larry Page because he doesn't want to talk to me at all for a few",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1845.24,
    "end": 1846.24,
    "text": " years.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1846.24,
    "end": 1850.68,
    "text": " Can I ask you this about, since you've been around a lot of this, the thinking.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1850.68,
    "end": 1857.68,
    "text": " So why would anyone not be a species, be human-centered in his thinking about technology?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1857.68,
    "end": 1859.2800000000002,
    "text": " What's the thinking there?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1859.28,
    "end": 1867.48,
    "text": " I think what he's trying to say is that, if I were to guess, that all consciousness",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1867.48,
    "end": 1876.6,
    "text": " should be treated equally, and whether that is digital or biological.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1876.6,
    "end": 1878.24,
    "text": " And you disagree.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1878.24,
    "end": 1887.36,
    "text": " I disagree, yeah, especially if the digital consciousness, or whatever you want to call",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1887.3600000000001,
    "end": 1891.2800000000002,
    "text": " digital intelligence, decides to curtail the biological intelligence.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1891.2800000000002,
    "end": 1892.2800000000002,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1892.2800000000002,
    "end": 1894.5600000000002,
    "text": " So you're just building your own slave master, and why would you do that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1894.5600000000002,
    "end": 1897.5600000000002,
    "text": " Doesn't sound great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1897.5600000000002,
    "end": 1905.5600000000002,
    "text": " Yeah, I mean, we should at least, no need to rush.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1905.5600000000002,
    "end": 1906.5600000000002,
    "text": " What's the hurry?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1906.5600000000002,
    "end": 1909.5600000000002,
    "text": " Where's the fire?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1909.5600000000002,
    "end": 1912.2400000000002,
    "text": " Well, tell us about the hurry.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1912.2400000000002,
    "end": 1916.0000000000002,
    "text": " So this, I know you've been talking about this for years, and on the sort of periphery",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1916.0,
    "end": 1919.48,
    "text": " of our attention, we've heard Elon Musk talking about AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1919.48,
    "end": 1923.8,
    "text": " But for most people, it's been like three months since they've had any interaction with",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1923.8,
    "end": 1925.72,
    "text": " this at all.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1925.72,
    "end": 1926.72,
    "text": " So what's the timeline here?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1926.72,
    "end": 1934.84,
    "text": " At what point does it start to really change our society, do you think?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1934.84,
    "end": 1942.0,
    "text": " I think it starts to have probably an impact this year, I think.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1942.0,
    "end": 1954.16,
    "text": " So you've got a massive expansion of GPT-4-based systems, and many companies trying to emulate",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1954.16,
    "end": 1955.16,
    "text": " GPT-4.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1955.16,
    "end": 1963.56,
    "text": " And you're opening eyes going to come up with GPT-5 end of this year, which will be yet",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1963.56,
    "end": 1966.44,
    "text": " another significant improvement.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1966.44,
    "end": 1971.6,
    "text": " And I was there for GPT-1, 2, 3, 4, you know, so GPT-1 was terrible.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1972.2,
    "end": 1978.4,
    "text": " If you tried it, you'd be like, this is, this ain't going anywhere, it seems lame.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1978.4,
    "end": 1982.16,
    "text": " And then GPT-2, you started to see kind of like an inkling of like, well, maybe this",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1982.16,
    "end": 1983.88,
    "text": " could be something useful.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1983.88,
    "end": 1989.2400000000002,
    "text": " And then GPT-3 was a huge improvement, and now it's like, wow, okay, this is, it's still",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1989.2400000000002,
    "end": 1994.92,
    "text": " spouting a lot of BS, but it's, you know, it's coherent BS.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1994.92,
    "end": 1999.5200000000002,
    "text": " And then GPT-4, now it's like writing poetry.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1999.5200000000002,
    "end": 2000.8400000000001,
    "text": " Pretty decent poetry, actually.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2001.0800000000002,
    "end": 2002.0800000000002,
    "text": " Pretty decent.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2002.0800000000002,
    "end": 2003.0800000000002,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2003.0800000000002,
    "end": 2004.0800000000002,
    "text": " So skillet rhyming is incredible.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2004.0800000000002,
    "end": 2005.0800000000002,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2005.0800000000002,
    "end": 2006.0800000000002,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2006.0800000000002,
    "end": 2007.0800000000002,
    "text": " And it's coherent.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2007.0800000000002,
    "end": 2008.0800000000002,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2008.0800000000002,
    "end": 2009.0800000000002,
    "text": " It is.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2009.0800000000002,
    "end": 2010.0800000000002,
    "text": " You've got a narrative.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2010.0800000000002,
    "end": 2011.0800000000002,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2011.0800000000002,
    "end": 2012.0800000000002,
    "text": " That's right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2012.0800000000002,
    "end": 2013.0800000000002,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2013.0800000000002,
    "end": 2014.0800000000002,
    "text": " So you could say like-",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2014.0800000000002,
    "end": 2015.0800000000002,
    "text": " That's hard to do.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2015.0800000000002,
    "end": 2016.0800000000002,
    "text": " Like most humans can't do that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2016.0800000000002,
    "end": 2017.0800000000002,
    "text": " That's true.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2017.0800000000002,
    "end": 2018.96,
    "text": " So it's already past the point of what most humans can do.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2018.96,
    "end": 2024.4800000000002,
    "text": " Most humans cannot write as well as chat GPT.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2024.4800000000002,
    "end": 2028.88,
    "text": " And no human can write that well that fast, as is best of my knowledge.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2028.88,
    "end": 2031.5200000000002,
    "text": " So maybe Shakespeare.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2031.5200000000002,
    "end": 2038.24,
    "text": " So then how much better will GPT-5 be, and how about GPT-6 or 7?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2038.24,
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    "text": " How can you have a democracy with technology like that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2041.0800000000002,
    "end": 2045.14,
    "text": " I mean, if democracy is, you know, government by the people, each person's vote is equal",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2045.14,
    "end": 2046.2800000000002,
    "text": " to every other person's vote.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2046.2800000000002,
    "end": 2051.04,
    "text": " I mean, people are choosing their votes freely.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2051.04,
    "end": 2053.6400000000003,
    "text": " Can you have a democracy with this?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2053.64,
    "end": 2068.6,
    "text": " Well, that's why I raise the concern of AI being a significant influence in elections.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2068.6,
    "end": 2072.4,
    "text": " Even if you say that AI doesn't have agency, well, it's very likely that people will use",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2072.4,
    "end": 2078.52,
    "text": " the AI as a tool in elections.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2078.52,
    "end": 2087.32,
    "text": " And then if the AI is smart enough, are they using the tool, or is the tool using them?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2087.32,
    "end": 2090.84,
    "text": " So I think things are getting weird, and they're getting weird fast.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2090.84,
    "end": 2095.92,
    "text": " And so I think we should be concerned about this, and we should have regulatory oversight.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2095.92,
    "end": 2098.72,
    "text": " That's why I think it's a big deal.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2098.72,
    "end": 2103.72,
    "text": " And I think social media companies really need to put a lot of attention into ensuring",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2103.7200000000003,
    "end": 2111.0400000000004,
    "text": " that the things that get created and promoted are that we're dealing with real people, not",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2111.0400000000004,
    "end": 2115.1600000000003,
    "text": " with a million chat GPTs pretending to be people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2115.1600000000003,
    "end": 2116.1600000000003,
    "text": " Exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2116.1600000000003,
    "end": 2119.8,
    "text": " Do you think, speaking of social media, you bought Twitter famously, you've got a lot",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2119.8,
    "end": 2122.7200000000003,
    "text": " of other businesses and a lot going on.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2122.7200000000003,
    "end": 2123.7200000000003,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2123.7200000000003,
    "end": 2126.88,
    "text": " You said you bought it because you believe in speech, free speech.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2126.88,
    "end": 2128.7200000000003,
    "text": " You've had a lot of hassle since you bought it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2128.7200000000003,
    "end": 2132.32,
    "text": " In retrospect, was it worth buying it?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2132.32,
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    "text": " I mean, it remains to be seen as to whether this was financially smart.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2142.84,
    "end": 2145.8,
    "text": " Currently, it is not.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2145.8,
    "end": 2149.44,
    "text": " We just revalued the company at less than half of the acquisition price.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2149.44,
    "end": 2150.44,
    "text": " Did you?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2150.44,
    "end": 2151.44,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2151.44,
    "end": 2152.44,
    "text": " Sorry.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2152.44,
    "end": 2162.2400000000002,
    "text": " No, my timing was terrible for when the offer was made, because it was right before, and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2162.2400000000002,
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    "text": " advertising plummeted.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2164.5600000000004,
    "end": 2166.48,
    "text": " You got the high watermark, I noticed.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2166.48,
    "end": 2167.48,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2167.48,
    "end": 2168.48,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2168.48,
    "end": 2171.1200000000003,
    "text": " So I must be a real genius here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2171.1200000000003,
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    "text": " My timing is amazing, since I bought it for at least twice as much as it should have been",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2176.5600000000004,
    "end": 2178.7200000000003,
    "text": " bought for.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2178.7200000000003,
    "end": 2181.1600000000003,
    "text": " But some things are priceless.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2181.1600000000003,
    "end": 2188.48,
    "text": " So whether I lose money or not, that is a secondary issue compared to ensuring the strength",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2188.48,
    "end": 2194.32,
    "text": " of democracy and free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2194.32,
    "end": 2200.12,
    "text": " And the speech needs to be as transparent and truthful as possible.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2200.12,
    "end": 2204.6,
    "text": " So we've got a huge push on Twitter to be as truthful as possible.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2204.6,
    "end": 2207.2,
    "text": " We've got this community notes feature, which is great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2207.2,
    "end": 2208.2,
    "text": " It is great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2208.2,
    "end": 2209.2,
    "text": " It is awesome.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2209.2,
    "end": 2210.2,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2210.2,
    "end": 2211.2,
    "text": " And it's like-",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2211.2,
    "end": 2212.2,
    "text": " I saw it this morning.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2212.2,
    "end": 2213.2,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2213.2,
    "end": 2214.2,
    "text": " It was far more honest than the New York Times.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2214.2,
    "end": 2215.2,
    "text": " It's great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2215.2,
    "end": 2216.2,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2216.2000000000003,
    "end": 2219.8,
    "text": " And I think that community notes does not get gamed or have biases.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2219.8,
    "end": 2224.76,
    "text": " It simply cares about what is the most accurate thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2224.76,
    "end": 2229.4800000000005,
    "text": " And sometimes truth can be a little bit elusive, but you can aspire to get closer to it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2229.4800000000005,
    "end": 2230.4800000000005,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2230.4800000000005,
    "end": 2238.88,
    "text": " And I think the effect of community notes is more powerful than people may realize,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2238.88,
    "end": 2244.4800000000005,
    "text": " because once people know that they could get noted, community noted on Twitter, then they'll",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2244.48,
    "end": 2247.72,
    "text": " think more carefully about what they say.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2247.72,
    "end": 2252.08,
    "text": " Basically, it's an encouragement to be more truthful and less deceptive.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2252.08,
    "end": 2253.08,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2253.08,
    "end": 2255.92,
    "text": " And if the notes themselves are truthful, then it will have the effect.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2255.92,
    "end": 2256.92,
    "text": " Absolutely.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2256.92,
    "end": 2258.08,
    "text": " And all of that is open source.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2258.08,
    "end": 2259.28,
    "text": " All the community notes is open source.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2259.28,
    "end": 2261.28,
    "text": " So you can read about every community note.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2261.28,
    "end": 2264.12,
    "text": " You can see exactly how the algorithm works.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2264.12,
    "end": 2270.16,
    "text": " You can register, say like, oh, we need to make this change or that change.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2270.16,
    "end": 2272.88,
    "text": " So everything is super open book with community notes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2272.88,
    "end": 2275.4,
    "text": " There's no black box.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2275.4,
    "end": 2279.56,
    "text": " When you jumped into this, though, when you bought it, did you understand, clearly you",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2279.56,
    "end": 2280.56,
    "text": " understood its importance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2280.56,
    "end": 2281.56,
    "text": " You wouldn't have bought it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2281.56,
    "end": 2282.56,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2282.56,
    "end": 2283.6400000000003,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2283.6400000000003,
    "end": 2287.2400000000002,
    "text": " But it's not the biggest, but it's the most important in the social media companies.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2287.2400000000002,
    "end": 2292.76,
    "text": " But did you understand the kind of ferocity you'd be facing, the attacks you'd be facing",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2292.76,
    "end": 2296.4,
    "text": " from power centers in the country?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2296.4,
    "end": 2302.2400000000002,
    "text": " I thought there'd probably be some negative reactions.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2302.2400000000002,
    "end": 2307.1600000000003,
    "text": " So I'm not sure everyone would not be pleased with it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2307.1600000000003,
    "end": 2314.84,
    "text": " But at the end of the day, if the public is happy with it, that's what matters.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2314.84,
    "end": 2319.0800000000004,
    "text": " And the public will speak with their actions.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2319.0800000000004,
    "end": 2321.7200000000003,
    "text": " If they find truth put it to be useful, they will use it more.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2321.7200000000003,
    "end": 2324.84,
    "text": " And if they find it to be not useful, I will use it less.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2324.84,
    "end": 2327.0400000000004,
    "text": " They find it to be the best source of truth.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2327.0400000000004,
    "end": 2329.96,
    "text": " I think they will use it more.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2329.96,
    "end": 2331.92,
    "text": " So that's my theory.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2331.92,
    "end": 2340.28,
    "text": " And so even though, now there's obviously a lot of organizations that are used to having",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2340.28,
    "end": 2346.16,
    "text": " sort of unfettered influence on Twitter that no longer have that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2346.16,
    "end": 2349.56,
    "text": " We used to pick the New York Times of their badge this morning, and then you called them",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2349.56,
    "end": 2350.56,
    "text": " diarrhea.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2350.56,
    "end": 2351.56,
    "text": " You called them diarrhea.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2351.56,
    "end": 2352.56,
    "text": " You did.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2352.56,
    "end": 2353.56,
    "text": " You did.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2353.56,
    "end": 2354.56,
    "text": " I'm just quoting you.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2354.56,
    "end": 2357.44,
    "text": " You described their Twitter feed as diarrhea.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2357.44,
    "end": 2359.84,
    "text": " I said it was the Twitter equivalent of diarrhea.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2359.84,
    "end": 2360.84,
    "text": " Okay.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2360.84,
    "end": 2361.84,
    "text": " It's not literally diarrhea.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2362.76,
    "end": 2368.2000000000003,
    "text": " It's a metaphor, but an accurate one.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2368.2000000000003,
    "end": 2372.92,
    "text": " So I mean, if you look at the at NY Times, Twitter feed is unreadable.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2372.92,
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    "text": " It's like because what they do is that they tweet every single article, even the ones",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2376.6400000000003,
    "end": 2381.7200000000003,
    "text": " that are boring, even ones that don't make it into the paper.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2381.7200000000003,
    "end": 2388.2400000000002,
    "text": " So it's just nonstop zillion tweets a day with no, you know, they really should just",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2388.2400000000002,
    "end": 2392.76,
    "text": " be saying, like, what are the top tweets is like, what are the what are the big stories",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2392.76,
    "end": 2393.76,
    "text": " of the day?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2393.76,
    "end": 2394.76,
    "text": " I don't know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2394.76,
    "end": 2399.84,
    "text": " Put out like 10 or something, you know, some number that's manageable as opposed to right",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2399.84,
    "end": 2404.96,
    "text": " now if you if you were to follow at NY Times on Twitter, you're going to get barraged with",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2404.96,
    "end": 2407.7200000000003,
    "text": " like hundreds of tweets a day.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2407.7200000000003,
    "end": 2409.6000000000004,
    "text": " And your whole feed will be filled with NY Times.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2409.6000000000004,
    "end": 2414.76,
    "text": " So that's that's this is something I would recommend actually for all publications, which",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2414.76,
    "end": 2420.0400000000004,
    "text": " is for your primary feed, only put out your best stuff.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2420.0400000000004,
    "end": 2422.4,
    "text": " Don't put out everything.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2422.4,
    "end": 2427.4,
    "text": " You can have a second feed that is here's everything, but then but have a have your",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2427.4,
    "end": 2430.96,
    "text": " primary feed be here's our best stuff.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2430.96,
    "end": 2442.5200000000004,
    "text": " Any media organization or individual just have don't put out hundreds of tweets a day.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2442.52,
    "end": 2448.08,
    "text": " Just put out like 10 good ones or five good ones or or and if it's a slow news day, don't",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2448.08,
    "end": 2451.24,
    "text": " put on a maybe put out to one or two.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2451.24,
    "end": 2456.68,
    "text": " But don't don't don't try to say we're always going to put out 100 tweets, even if you know,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2456.68,
    "end": 2459.48,
    "text": " if it's World War Three or a bicycle accident was the biggest news.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2459.48,
    "end": 2466.48,
    "text": " You know, it's got to be like, yeah, news that it's got it on your on your plate on someone's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2466.48,
    "end": 2467.48,
    "text": " attention.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2467.48,
    "end": 2468.48,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2468.48,
    "end": 2473.92,
    "text": " So just in general, I think I know a thing or two about how to use Twitter, because,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2473.92,
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    "text": " you know, I was the most interacted with account on the whole system before the acquisition",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2478.48,
    "end": 2480.52,
    "text": " for it before the acquisition closed.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2480.52,
    "end": 2484.16,
    "text": " I didn't have the most number of followers, but I had the most number of interactions.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2484.16,
    "end": 2487.64,
    "text": " And so I clearly know something about how to use Twitter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2487.64,
    "end": 2493.08,
    "text": " And so quotient, you know, this is my advice, I think.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2493.08,
    "end": 2496.2,
    "text": " So people's attention is limited.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2496.2000000000003,
    "end": 2498.9600000000005,
    "text": " So just make sure you put the stuff that's most important there.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2498.9600000000005,
    "end": 2505.4,
    "text": " So because, you know, you and people like you do interact on Twitter, it's obviously",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2505.4,
    "end": 2508.4,
    "text": " enormously powerful in shaping public opinion.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 2508.4,
    "end": 2510.44,
    "text": " It's where a lot of ideas and trends are incubated.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2510.44,
    "end": 2513.0000000000005,
    "text": " Yeah, you know, that's why you bought it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2513.0000000000005,
    "end": 2516.6000000000004,
    "text": " It's also a magnet for Intel agencies from around the world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2516.6000000000004,
    "end": 2520.5200000000004,
    "text": " And one of the things we learned after you started opening the books is that they were",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2520.5200000000004,
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    "text": " exerting influence from within Twitter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2523.2000000000003,
    "end": 2527.44,
    "text": " I mean, it was absurd.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2527.44,
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    "text": " Did you know that going in?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2528.9600000000005,
    "end": 2529.9600000000005,
    "text": " No.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2529.9600000000005,
    "end": 2542.4,
    "text": " Well, so things like I have a, since I've been a heavy Twitter user since 2009, it's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2542.4,
    "end": 2543.4,
    "text": " sort of like I'm in the matrix.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2543.4,
    "end": 2547.4,
    "text": " I mean, I can see like things, do things feel right?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2547.4,
    "end": 2549.2400000000002,
    "text": " Do they not feel right?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2549.2400000000002,
    "end": 2553.5200000000004,
    "text": " Like tweets, am I being shown as recommended?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2553.5200000000004,
    "end": 2557.7200000000003,
    "text": " Like I get a feel, like what accounts are making comments?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2557.7200000000003,
    "end": 2560.6800000000003,
    "text": " Where are the comments eerily similar?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2560.6800000000003,
    "end": 2562.6800000000003,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2562.6800000000003,
    "end": 2568.36,
    "text": " And then you look at the account and it's just obviously a fake photo and, you know,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2568.36,
    "end": 2572.2000000000003,
    "text": " it's just obviously a bot cluster over and over again.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2572.2000000000003,
    "end": 2578.5600000000004,
    "text": " So this is actually, so I started to get like just more and more uneasy about the Twitter",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Because I was getting, you know, a couple years ago, I was getting attacked a lot for",
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    "text": " Now there was one year I didn't pay taxes because I had overpaid taxes in the prior",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " in the prior year, but they said, oh, Elon Musk didn't pay taxes in 2017 or whatever",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And I was like, but you know that the reason I didn't pay taxes because I overpaid the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2632.48,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " You didn't mention that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2634.72,
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    "text": " So that was deceptive.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2636.96,
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    "text": " Anyway, so you know, Elizabeth Warren's of the world and Bernie Sanders like saying,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2641.8,
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    "text": " oh, you know, I'm not selling stock and I'm not paying taxes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2646.56,
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    "text": " And so so I'm like, look, I don't know what the right thing to do is here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2654.68,
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    "text": " That's right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So I held a Twitter poll to say, which one do you guys want?",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So I did. So then I had a bunch of cash and I'm like, what should I do with this?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " At the time, the federal reserve rates were super low.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So it's just like sitting in the, you know, I guess your checking account.",
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    "text": " Well, in the T in the T-ball account, you know, money market account, whatever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So so then I'm assuming this money account is earning less than the rate of inflation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " This is dumb. I'm getting like minus.",
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    "text": " It's just evaporating.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2719.56,
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    "text": " Yeah, I'm getting minus like six or seven percent return here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2722.64,
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    "text": " Maybe worse. And so then, well, it's like, what stock should I buy?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So, you know, like Apple products, we're not going to invest in them because they've got a",
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    "text": " competing autonomous EV program.",
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    "text": " Twitter. OK, so I'll, you know, put the money in Twitter.",
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    "text": " It's better than just having it earn, you know, negative six percent inflation situation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Like I said, not with the intent of buying a company, just better than keeping it at a",
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    "text": " money market. Remember how much you bought?",
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    "text": " I think it was like eight percent or something of the company.",
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    "text": " So I was like, well, I don't I don't want to be on boards, but because it's boring and I",
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    "start": 2823.28,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " situation and and if a collaborator effectively.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2831.48,
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    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So and it really felt like I thought I was starting to feel like, wait a second.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And so it wasn't clear to me whether an acquisition would succeed, but I thought I",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So here we are.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2912.12,
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    "text": " But when you got there and all of a sudden you own it and all the data on the service",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " belongs to you and belongs to the people in my view.",
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    "text": " But yes, but but you can see what it is and you can see what they've been doing and you",
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    "text": " You were shocked to find out that various intel agencies were affecting its operations.",
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    "text": " had effectively had full access to everything that was going on on Twitter blew my mind.",
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Would that include people's DMs?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2955.36,
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    "text": " So one of the first one of the things that we're about to release is the ability to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2959.32,
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    "text": " encrypt your DMs.",
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    "text": " That's pretty heavy duty, though, because a lot of well-known people, reporters talk",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " into their sources, government officials, the rich people in the world, they're DMing",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " each other.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " And the assumption, obviously, was incorrect, but was that that's private.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2973.32,
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    "text": " But that was being read by various governments.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2976.8,
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    "text": " Yeah, that seems to be yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2979.56,
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    "text": " Scary.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2980.68,
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    "text": " Yes, it is.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So like I said, we're moving to have the DMs be optionally encrypted.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " I mean, you know, there's like a lot of DM conversations which are just chatting with",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2991.92,
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    "text": " friends, not important.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2994.64,
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    "text": " But but so we were that's hopefully coming out later this month, but no later the next",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3000.32,
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    "text": " month is the ability to toggle encryption on or off.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3004.36,
    "end": 3007.84,
    "text": " So if you if you are in a conversation, you think a sensitive you can just toggle",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3007.88,
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    "text": " encryption on and then no one on Twitter can see what you're talking about.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3011.56,
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    "text": " They could put a gun to my head and I couldn't I couldn't tell I couldn't.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 3016.52,
    "end": 3017.8,
    "text": " That's sort of gun to the head test.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3017.84,
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    "text": " If somebody puts a gun to my head and I can I still not see your DMs, that should be that's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3023.2,
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    "text": " the asset test.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3023.92,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3026.32,
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    "text": " And that's how that's that's how it should be if you want your you had complaints from",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3029.76,
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    "text": " various governments about doing this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " I haven't had direct complaints to me.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3036.04,
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    "text": " I've had sort of like some indirect complaints.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3038.44,
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    "text": " I think people are a little concerned about complaining to me directly in case I tweet",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3042.0,
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    "text": " about it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3044.8,
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    "text": " You know, they're like, oh, so they're sort of trying to be more roundabout than that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And, you know, I mean, if I got something that was unconstitutional from the U.S.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " government, my reply would be to send them a copy of the First Amendment and just say, like,",
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    "start": 3068.2400000000002,
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    "text": " what part of this are we getting wrong?",
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    "start": 3073.12,
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    "text": " You have a lot of you have a lot of serious what part of this are we getting wrong?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Please tell me.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3077.0,
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    "text": " I mean, it's a pretty not the same, but you're kind of exposed in your other businesses.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " So this is just in case our viewers aren't following this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3083.4,
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    "text": " This is not you're not just like a journalist taking a stand on behalf of the First Amendment.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3087.04,
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    "text": " You're a guy with big government contracts giving the finger to the government in some way.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3091.52,
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    "text": " I think that there are I'm not someone who thinks that, you know, the government is just sort",
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    "start": 3099.6,
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    "text": " of evil, right?",
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    "text": " It's a it's a it's a large bureaucracy.",
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    "text": " motivations, occasionally bad motivations, with with rare exception, the people that I",
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    "text": " know in government to have good motivations and just want to get their job done.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And they're so I think my my opinion is actually most people in the government are good.",
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    "text": " It's heartening to hear.",
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    "text": " Yeah, it's it's rare for me to find someone in the government who I think is perhaps not good.",
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    "text": " But but, you know, at the highest level of the agencies, there are political appointees, as you",
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    "text": " know, and the political appointees will have a political agenda.",
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    "text": " And so they at the at the highest levels of the various government agencies, there is the ability",
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    "text": " agree with that. So, you know, so that's something to be concerned about.",
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    "text": " people, the career people.",
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    "text": " Do you think Twitter will be as central to this presidential campaign as it was in the last",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3184.28,
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    "start": 3187.2000000000003,
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    "text": " I think it will play a significant role in elections, not just domestically, but",
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    "start": 3191.8,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So not favoring any political ideology, but just",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3213.1200000000003,
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    "text": " being fair at all.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3215.8,
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    "text": " I know that Zuckerberg has said and I take him at face value that he.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Well, I do actually in this way that he is a kind of old fashioned liberal who doesn't like to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3226.0000000000005,
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    "text": " censor. He has. But he you know, like why wouldn't a company like that take the stand that you have",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3231.7200000000003,
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    "text": " taken? It was pretty rooted in American traditional political custom, you know, for free",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3239.0000000000005,
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    "text": " My understanding is that Zuckerberg spent four hundred million dollars in the last election",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3251.6,
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    "text": " normally in a get out the vote campaign, but really fundamentally in support of Democrats.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3256.16,
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    "text": " Is that accurate or not accurate?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3257.48,
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    "text": " That is accurate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3259.36,
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    "text": " Does that sound unbiased to you?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3261.12,
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    "text": " No, it doesn't.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3261.96,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3262.36,
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    "text": " So you don't see hope that Facebook will approach this as a non-aligned arbiter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " I'm unaware of evidence to suggest that path.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3286.36,
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    "text": " Can you you've you've allowed Donald Trump back on Twitter?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3289.96,
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    "text": " He hasn't taken you up on your offer because he's got his own thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3296.36,
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    "text": " Well, that's that's obviously up to him.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3299.16,
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    "text": " My job is to you know, I take the freedom of speech very seriously.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3308.48,
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    "text": " So it's you know, I didn't I didn't vote for Donald Trump.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3312.88,
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    "text": " I actually voted for Biden.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3313.8,
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    "text": " People think I'm some sort of hardcore, you know, so it's certainly some of the media try to paint me as like far right or whatever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " I'm right in the only time I've ever even voted for Republican was was once for because I'm I registered to vote in South Texas.",
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    "text": " It was for a Mexican American woman for Congress.",
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    "text": " That's that's literally the only Republican vote I've ever cast in my entire life once.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And so I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of Biden because I think that would probably be inaccurate.",
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    "text": " But you know, we have difficult choices to make in these presidential elections.",
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    "text": " It's not I would prefer frankly that we we we put someone just a normal person as president, a normal person with common sense.",
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    "text": " And whose values are smack in the middle of the country.",
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    "text": " You know, just, you know, Sarah, the normal distribution.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " It would be happier.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Would you run? Like, why wouldn't you run?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3383.96,
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    "text": " I was born here. So of course you weren't.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3386.08,
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    "text": " Yeah, I tweet.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So it's not like it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Not that much fun, you know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " To be totally frank, it is by design a relatively weak role because it's intended to be balanced by the House and the Senate judiciary.",
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    "text": " So it's not like like if you're a prime minister in England or Canada, you have formal power than if the president is like being speaker of the House and being president.",
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    "text": " You know, so.",
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    "start": 3425.16,
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    "text": " So, you know, for presidents like deliberately weak in order to avoid creating a king situation, king queen situation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And but you get dumped on all day, no matter what you do.",
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    "text": " And every thing you do is scrutinized.",
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    "text": " And your life is not your own.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And if if you're any skeletons you've got in the closet will be trotted out and,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3453.7200000000003,
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    "text": " you know, braided down Main Street.",
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    "start": 3456.4,
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    "text": " And even if they don't exist, they'll make them up and face it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3460.2400000000002,
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    "text": " Whatever.",
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    "start": 3462.4,
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    "text": " Politics is a blood sport.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So it's not something I'd want to do.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3466.6400000000003,
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    "text": " So I got one last thread.",
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    "text": " I just think you alluded to you said, don't get me started on the banks.",
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    "text": " So you've seen.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Well, so you've seen a couple of regional bank collapses.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3475.1600000000003,
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    "text": " Yeah. And we've been told that's not a big deal, that these are isolated and each one collapse for unique reasons or not.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " It's not systemic in any sense.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " What's your sense, your sense of the stability of the American banking system?",
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    "start": 3492.64,
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    "text": " Well, it's actually at this point a global banking system problems.",
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    "start": 3496.16,
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    "text": " So.",
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    "start": 3502.4,
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    "text": " You know, we have a situation here where it's not really it's not that the canary in the coal mine has died, but the miners are starting to die too.",
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    "text": " The you know, the so and, you know, Silicon Valley Bank collapsing overnight is a one hell of a big canary.",
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    "text": " It's more like a turkey.",
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    "text": " I mean, it's not just it's not like some small fry thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3524.56,
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    "text": " Yeah, it's big fry.",
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    "text": " So a medium fry.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And then Credesuis, which is I think was formed in the mid-1800s, was basically sold for pennies on the dollar,",
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    "start": 3538.32,
    "end": 3543.28,
    "text": " forced to merge with UBS, and even then required backstop by the Swiss government.",
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    "start": 3544.1600000000003,
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    "text": " I mean, like, hello, guys, maybe we have issues here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3547.56,
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    "text": " Maybe things aren't all great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3549.6400000000003,
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    "text": " They're definitely not all great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Maybe it's more forceful here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " The I think that there is a serious danger with the global banking system.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " There's there's a strong argument that the if you were to actually mark to market the portfolios of the banks, the loans and whatnot,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " that the entire banking industry would have negative equity.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " It feels that way.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3587.2000000000003,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3589.0,
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    "text": " So if you look at, say, commercial real estate like offices and whatnot, the whole work from home thing has",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3596.96,
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    "text": " substantially reduced office usage in cities around the world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3603.84,
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    "text": " And",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3606.08,
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    "text": " you know, I think I think some just goes at 40 percent off and a percentage goes like an extreme example, but I think it's on 40 percent vacancy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Even even New York has almost all cities at this point have record vacancies in commercial real estate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So now commercial real estate used to be something that was a grade A asset that if a bank had commercial real estate holdings, that those would be considered the highest security, the same work, some of the safest",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3636.2400000000002,
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    "text": " you know, assets you could have.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3639.0400000000004,
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    "text": " Now, that is not the case anymore.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3641.8,
    "end": 3650.76,
    "text": " One company after another is canceling their leases or not renewing their leases or if they go bankrupt, you have the there's nothing for the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3651.48,
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    "text": " the bank who owns that real estate to go after because they were, you know, previously strong company now dead.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3657.28,
    "end": 3659.32,
    "text": " What do you what do you what do you go after that point?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3660.2000000000003,
    "end": 3660.6000000000004,
    "text": " So",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3662.0000000000005,
    "end": 3664.92,
    "text": " we really haven't seen the commercial estate shoe drop.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3665.2000000000003,
    "end": 3667.0800000000004,
    "text": " That's more like an anvil, not a shoe.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3668.6000000000004,
    "end": 3672.76,
    "text": " So the stuff we've seen thus far actually hasn't even",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3675.2400000000002,
    "end": 3676.36,
    "text": " it's only slightly",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3676.36,
    "end": 3696.6,
    "text": " real estate portfolio degradation, but that will become a very serious thing later this year. In my in my view, I think if we see what you're likely to see a drop in house prices because the interest rates are too high and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3697.6,
    "end": 3715.6,
    "text": " for most people when buying a house, they look at the monthly payment if your 30 year mortgage is the vast majority of his interest. So if the Fed rate is high, you have a high base interest rate. Effectively, the price you can pay for the house drops because you now have to pay more interest, which means that if you've got",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3716.6,
    "end": 3724.04,
    "text": " a fixed monthly payments, you can now afford to buy a house for less less money. It effectively drops the prices of houses. Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3725.04,
    "end": 3745.04,
    "text": " This is the kind of thing that tends to accelerate so that so that then you can get negative equity in the home market as well. And so so if if banks end up having loan losses in both their commercial and they definitely have loan losses in the commercial portfolio, but also in the mortgage portfolio. This is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3746.04,
    "end": 3747.04,
    "text": " a dire situation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3749.04,
    "end": 3750.04,
    "text": " The",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3751.04,
    "end": 3759.04,
    "text": " there is there is a solution to mitigate the magnitude of the damage here, which is for the Fed to lower the rate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3760.04,
    "end": 3762.04,
    "text": " But they raised the rate again.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3765.04,
    "end": 3768.04,
    "text": " Now, if I recall correctly, which I",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3769.04,
    "end": 3774.04,
    "text": " have one caveat. I think the last time the Fed raised rates going into recession was 1929.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3775.04,
    "end": 3776.04,
    "text": " What happened next?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3777.04,
    "end": 3778.04,
    "text": " Yeah, the Great Depression.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3781.04,
    "end": 3782.04,
    "text": " The",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3784.04,
    "end": 3792.04,
    "text": " concern. I'm not telling you nothing. You don't know. But the concern is if the Fed drops rates again, that inflation will accelerate and you can't do that in an election.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3793.04,
    "end": 3796.04,
    "text": " So inflation is going to happen no matter what.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3798.04,
    "end": 3800.04,
    "text": " If you increase the money supply,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3801.04,
    "end": 3813.04,
    "text": " you get inflation. Right. So there's no there's not some magical cure for getting rid of inflation except to increase the productivity, the output output of goods and services.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3814.04,
    "end": 3815.04,
    "text": " So",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3816.04,
    "end": 3824.04,
    "text": " if you say like what is money, you've got you've got you've got these sort of it's basically numbers in a database that's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3825.04,
    "end": 3830.04,
    "text": " that that's some up to something kind of some total. Then you've got the output of goods and services of the economy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3831.04,
    "end": 3839.04,
    "text": " And the as long as the ratio of money to ratio of goods and services stays, if that if that stays constant, you have no inflation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3840.04,
    "end": 3847.04,
    "text": " If if you add more money, if you add money to the system faster than you increase goods and services, then you have inflation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3848.04,
    "end": 3857.04,
    "text": " So all of these covered sort of stimulus bills were not paid for. They were they're just generated more currency, more",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3858.04,
    "end": 3868.04,
    "text": " you know, more money was was was created because the the federal government, the checks never the checks always pass, you know, until unless you had a deadline.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3869.04,
    "end": 3880.04,
    "text": " Which there's probably going to be some debt limit crisis later this year. But provided you haven't hit the debt limit, the the federal government, unlike state governments or city governments or individuals can simply issue more money.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3881.04,
    "end": 3882.04,
    "text": " And that's what they did.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3884.04,
    "end": 3895.04,
    "text": " I mean, as old saying goes that there's no there's no free lunch. So if you could just issue massive amounts of money without negative consequences, why don't we just take that to the loan and make everyone a trillionaire?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3896.04,
    "end": 3899.04,
    "text": " Well, I mean, they tried that Venezuela had that how that worked out.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3900.04,
    "end": 3901.04,
    "text": " Well, they had the zoo animals.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3902.04,
    "end": 3912.04,
    "text": " Right. It's not good. You know, you get to the point where the sort of why margin at Germany type stuff where you would like to bring in the cash to the store in a wheelbarrow.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3913.04,
    "end": 3920.04,
    "text": " Yes. So there's no free lunch. There's not some ability to issue money and not have inflation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3920.04,
    "end": 3937.04,
    "text": " This is just yeah. So the inflation will happen. And there's no fiddling with the Fed rate is not going to affect that really.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3937.04,
    "end": 3958.04,
    "text": " But a high fed rate can cause a lot of damage in shifting funds in the wrong direction. So the long term return on say the S&P 500 I believe is depending on how you count it around six percent.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3958.04,
    "end": 3970.04,
    "text": " So as if the Fed real rate of return starts to approach what the long term return is on the stock market, why would you keep any money in the stock market?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3971.04,
    "end": 3979.04,
    "text": " You would should simply buy Treasury bills. Of course, because the Treasury bills is a certainty where the stock market fluctuates. Right. This is pretty basic.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3979.04,
    "end": 3988.04,
    "text": " Also, why would you keep money in a bank savings account if you can put it in what's called a money market account, which is an account that represents the Treasury bills.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3989.04,
    "end": 4002.04,
    "text": " If the Treasury bill money market account gives you four to five percent interest and the bank savings count only gives you two percent, you'd be a fool to keep the money in the bank savings count.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4003.04,
    "end": 4015.04,
    "text": " So the Fed has made a tremendous mistake by going this high with their rate and they need to drop it immediately.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4016.04,
    "end": 4017.04,
    "text": " Do you think they will?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4017.04,
    "end": 4032.04,
    "text": " Yes, they will have no choice but to drop it, I think later this year. Part of the issue is that the Fed is an old institution and has a lot of latency in its data.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4032.04,
    "end": 4046.04,
    "text": " So it's like driving a car along a cliffside road, a windy cliffside road while looking at the rear view mirror, but not even actually the rear view mirror, a video that was taken of the rear view mirror that's three months old.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4047.04,
    "end": 4064.04,
    "text": " Now, if you're on a straight road, that works out OK because nothing's changing or it's only a slightly bending road, but we're doing the highway one PCH trip here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4065.04,
    "end": 4071.04,
    "text": " And so you really want to look at the front window. When you're in Big Sur, yes. If you're on a cliffside road where you could punch your doom.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4071.04,
    "end": 4099.04,
    "text": " So yes, you want to look at the front window. You want to look at the sort of forward commodity prices. Look at what the forward contracts are predicting for commodity prices and not some laboriously slow government data collection process that they'll claim to have, for example, December data.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4100.04,
    "end": 4105.04,
    "text": " That's not December. That's not the data of December. It's the data that arrived in December. Right. Exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4106.04,
    "end": 4113.04,
    "text": " If you think about it, like how good is the government at actually collecting data? Horrible. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like that's what I mean. It's like three months old with lots of errors.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4114.04,
    "end": 4128.04,
    "text": " So if you had a hundred grand in your banking decisions, that basis is insane. So like what should the average non-rich person do on the cusp of what you're describing, which is economic catastrophe? Like how do you protect yourself?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4129.04,
    "end": 4158.04,
    "text": " I think probably a smart move overall, and this is guidance that I think applies across the ages, is if there are companies in whose products you believe buy and hold the stock.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4159.04,
    "end": 4177.04,
    "text": " And whenever else is panicking, then buy more. Everyone else thinks that the stock is going to the moon and sell it. You know, sort of the buy low sell high.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4178.04,
    "end": 4182.04,
    "text": " So you're not an index fund guy. Like you pick specific stocks.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4183.04,
    "end": 4208.04,
    "text": " You have to say like what is the purpose of a company? Why should a company exist? A company exists is a group of people collected together to provide products and services. It's not a thing in and of itself. It's just a group of people that's like it's hard if it was just one person making, you can make cupcakes yourself, but you can't make cars by yourself.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4208.04,
    "end": 4234.04,
    "text": " So therefore the value of a company is a function of the quality of the products and services that it has created and will create. And so if there's a company that you think, well this company's got a lot of exciting products that I think are awesome, their current products are good, that's probably a company to invest in.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4234.04,
    "end": 4251.04,
    "text": " Because that's the reason companies exist, to produce goods and services that you like. And so, I mean there's some caveats here to make sure you're not like investing when it's like the hottest thing, you know, because then it's going to have to be at a temporary high.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4251.04,
    "end": 4268.04,
    "text": " But, you know, when it's not sort of at a weirdly temporary high, I think just generally looking at a company and saying, well I like the products and services of that company and I like where they're going and the management seems sensible, then I think buying and holding that stock is probably the right move.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4268.04,
    "end": 4294.04,
    "text": " I'm probably doing that with a few companies. That's what I'd recommend. I think the, I mean I could really go on at length about the financial system and the stock market and everything, but the, I mean these days I think we've gotten a little too far into the index passive fund world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4295.04,
    "end": 4300.04,
    "text": " Like somebody at some point has got to make a decision, you know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4300.04,
    "end": 4302.04,
    "text": " I couldn't agree more.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4302.04,
    "end": 4305.04,
    "text": " Yeah, and by the way there's...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4305.04,
    "end": 4309.04,
    "text": " It's like betting on both red and black. I mean it doesn't, yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4309.04,
    "end": 4315.04,
    "text": " Well, betting on red and black in a casino situation where it could come up green and you're bound to lose.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4315.04,
    "end": 4316.04,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4316.04,
    "end": 4328.04,
    "text": " So the longer you play, the worse you do. Now, the stock market is kind of like the opposite of a casino, which is the longer you play, the more likely you are to succeed. That historically has been the case and I think will continue to be the case.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4328.04,
    "end": 4341.04,
    "text": " So, but it's really just important not to panic. If you buy a stock and you read something terrible in the newspaper, you want to just remember the news has got a negative bias.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4341.04,
    "end": 4350.04,
    "text": " Just think about, are the products of the company still sound? Does it have a good product roadmap? Do you believe in the management? If so, ignore what the press says.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4350.04,
    "end": 4353.04,
    "text": " Or if the price drops when there's a negative bias stock.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4353.04,
    "end": 4359.04,
    "text": " So here's my last question, and you mentioned the press. You've been the subject of press coverage for, you know, like a long time.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4359.04,
    "end": 4360.04,
    "text": " Sure.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4360.04,
    "end": 4363.04,
    "text": " But very intense media coverage for the last year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4363.04,
    "end": 4365.04,
    "text": " Yeah, sure.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4365.04,
    "end": 4381.04,
    "text": " Seems that way. Anyway, how has your opinion of the press changed?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4381.04,
    "end": 4396.04,
    "text": " Well, so my first company way back in the day in the sort of pre-Cambrian era of the Internet or the World Wide Web is up to, we actually helped bring a number of the media organizations online.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4396.04,
    "end": 4402.04,
    "text": " So most newspapers are not online. We helped bring hundreds of newspapers and magazines online for the first time.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4402.04,
    "end": 4407.04,
    "text": " We added a tremendous amount of functionality to their websites with our software.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4407.04,
    "end": 4415.04,
    "text": " The New York Times company and Knight Ritter were major investors and were on the board. I spent a lot of time in newsrooms.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4415.04,
    "end": 4425.04,
    "text": " So I'm not unfamiliar with the media. I got to see it firsthand all the way back in like 1996. So it's been a while.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4425.04,
    "end": 4437.04,
    "text": " So traditional media certainly had revenue challenges because as online advertising has increased and it's much more measurable and much more sort of direct.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4437.04,
    "end": 4447.04,
    "text": " You can say like I spent this amount and got this output. It's interactive, unlike say a newspaper or broadcast TV.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4447.04,
    "end": 4457.04,
    "text": " You're kind of guessing with the newspaper and broadcast TV. If something's online, you can tell immediately that that person saw the ad and bought the product.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4457.04,
    "end": 4468.04,
    "text": " That's very immediate. And it's actually more effective if the advertising is customized to the individual.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4468.04,
    "end": 4476.04,
    "text": " So the advertising is more likely to be relevant. Whereas broadcast, if it's being shown to everyone, it's going to be irrelevant to most people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4477.04,
    "end": 4490.04,
    "text": " The result of that has been a huge shift in advertising revenue from newspapers and TV to the Googles and Facebooks of the world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4490.04,
    "end": 4497.04,
    "text": " And a tiny bit to Twitter. I think Twitter gets like 1% of advertising revenue. It's quite tiny.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4498.04,
    "end": 4515.04,
    "text": " So this has meant a shrinking pie, obviously, for most of the traditional media companies and made them more desperate to get clicks, to get attention.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4516.04,
    "end": 4531.04,
    "text": " And it's made them, when they're in a sort of desperate state, they will then tend to really push headlines that get the most clicks whether those headlines are accurate or not.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4531.04,
    "end": 4541.04,
    "text": " So it's resulted in my view, I think most people would agree, a less truthful, less accurate news.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4542.04,
    "end": 4556.04,
    "text": " Because they've just got to get a rise out of people. And I think it's also increased the negativity of the news because I think we humans instinctually respond more to negative.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4557.04,
    "end": 4578.04,
    "text": " I think we have an instinctual negative bias, which kind of makes sense in that if, like let's say, it's more important to remember where was the lion or where was the tribe that wants to kill my tribe, then where is the bush with berries?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4579.04,
    "end": 4593.04,
    "text": " Like one's like a permanent negative outcome, and the other is like, well, I might go hungry. So meaning there's an asymmetry and sort of involved asymmetry in negative versus positive stuff.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4593.04,
    "end": 4606.04,
    "text": " And also historically, the negative stuff would have been quite proximate, like it would have been near, represented a real danger to you as a person if you heard negative news.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4606.04,
    "end": 4615.04,
    "text": " Because historically, like a few hundred years ago, we're not hearing about what negative things are happening on the other side of the world or on the other side of the country.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4615.04,
    "end": 4621.04,
    "text": " We're only hearing about negative things in our village, things that could actually have a bad effect on you.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4621.04,
    "end": 4628.04,
    "text": " Whereas now we're hearing about, I mean, the news very often seems to attempt to answer the question, what is the worst thing that happened on Earth today?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4628.04,
    "end": 4644.04,
    "text": " And you wonder why you said after reading that, you know, and then use the most inflammatory language, you know, because every day they got to sell the advertising, even if it's it happened to be a slow news day.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4644.04,
    "end": 4648.04,
    "text": " Do you read any legacy media outlets?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4649.04,
    "end": 4660.04,
    "text": " When I read a lot, so I mean, I really get most of my news from Twitter at this point.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4660.04,
    "end": 4677.04,
    "text": " So it is the number one news source, I think, in the world at this point. So and thus all the more important that we strive to be accurate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4677.04,
    "end": 4687.04,
    "text": " And it's not just a question of accuracy, but we also need to allow the people to develop the narratives that are of interest to them.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4687.04,
    "end": 4697.04,
    "text": " So it's possible for news to be technically truthful, but not, but they're still deciding what the narrative is.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4697.04,
    "end": 4705.04,
    "text": " Like let's say you wanted, let's say you took a photo of someone and they had a little zit.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4705.04,
    "end": 4716.04,
    "text": " Now you could zoom in on the zit and make it look gigantic, like Mount Vesuvius. And it is still true that they have a zit. It's just not the size of Mount Vesuvius.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4716.04,
    "end": 4726.04,
    "text": " And they, you know, it doesn't properly reflect their face. Their face is not one giant zit. But you could say like, well, it's true. But have they lied?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4726.04,
    "end": 4734.04,
    "text": " They haven't, you know, they just happen to zoom in on the zit and not look at the rest of the face type of thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4734.04,
    "end": 4744.04,
    "text": " So what I'm saying is that the choice of narrative is extremely important.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4745.04,
    "end": 4766.04,
    "text": " And at the point at which if there's only like, say, half a dozen editors in chief, or maybe even fewer than that, maybe it's only three or four that are deciding what the narrative is, what's going to be on the front page, then, you know, that's a form of manipulation of public opinion.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4766.04,
    "end": 4770.04,
    "text": " I think the public often doesn't appreciate and is perhaps the most pernicious of all.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4770.04,
    "end": 4772.04,
    "text": " That's right. Because it's the most subtle.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4772.04,
    "end": 4775.04,
    "text": " They haven't said an untrue thing. They've just chosen what they're going to focus on.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4775.04,
    "end": 4784.04,
    "text": " A man called Douglas Mack, he's facing 10 years in prison for posting what he believed were funny memes on Twitter. What do you make of that case?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4784.04,
    "end": 4793.04,
    "text": " I don't know the details of that case. You know, I've read a little bit about it. You probably know more about it than I do.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4794.04,
    "end": 4807.04,
    "text": " I still don't think so much go to prison for a long period of time for posting memes on Twitter, in which case we're going to have a very full prison.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4808.04,
    "end": 4824.04,
    "text": " And if we're talking about election interference, well, there's quite a few people that should be on trial for that, for far more serious crimes than memes on Twitter, far more serious.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4824.04,
    "end": 4827.04,
    "text": " Yes. The Twitter files kind of showed that, I think.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4827.04,
    "end": 4842.04,
    "text": " Yes. So, unless this person really does, like I said, I don't know everything that was shown at the trial. Has he been convicted?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4842.04,
    "end": 4844.04,
    "text": " Yes, he was convicted on Friday.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4844.04,
    "end": 4846.04,
    "text": " Unanimous jury verdict?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4846.04,
    "end": 4847.04,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4849.04,
    "end": 4851.04,
    "text": " What was the venue?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4851.04,
    "end": 4856.04,
    "text": " New York City. It was in Brooklyn and it was a hung jury.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4856.04,
    "end": 4858.04,
    "text": " A hung jury. That's not unanimous, then.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4858.04,
    "end": 4868.04,
    "text": " Well, the judge prodded the jury and they reached unanimous guilty verdict. It'll be appealed. So, how many, what percentage of your staff did you fire at Twitter?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4868.04,
    "end": 4871.04,
    "text": " One of the great business stories of the year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4871.04,
    "end": 4874.04,
    "text": " I think we're about 20% of the original size.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4874.04,
    "end": 4876.04,
    "text": " So, 80% left.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4876.04,
    "end": 4877.04,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4877.04,
    "end": 4878.04,
    "text": " So...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4878.04,
    "end": 4880.04,
    "text": " I mean, a lot of people voluntarily...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4880.04,
    "end": 4884.04,
    "text": " Sure, sure. But it's... 80% are gone from the date.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4885.04,
    "end": 4886.04,
    "text": " That's correct, yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4886.04,
    "end": 4889.04,
    "text": " So, how do you run the company with only 20% of the staff?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4889.04,
    "end": 4893.04,
    "text": " It turns out you don't need all that many people to run Twitter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4893.04,
    "end": 4895.04,
    "text": " But 80%? That's a lot.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4895.04,
    "end": 4910.04,
    "text": " Yes. If you're not trying to run some sort of glorified activist organization, and you don't care that much about censorship, then you can really let go of a lot of people, it turns out.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4910.04,
    "end": 4922.04,
    "text": " How many others, without naming names, but how many... I had dinner with somebody who runs a big company recently and said, I'm really inspired by Ewan.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4922.04,
    "end": 4925.04,
    "text": " And I said, the free speech stuff? He goes, no, the firing the staff stuff.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4925.04,
    "end": 4933.04,
    "text": " How many other CEOs have come to you to talk about this?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 4933.04,
    "end": 4943.04,
    "text": " You know, I spend a lot of time at work, so it's not like I'm meeting with lots of people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4943.04,
    "end": 4948.04,
    "text": " They see what actions I've taken, and...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4948.04,
    "end": 4955.04,
    "text": " But I think we just had a situation at Twitter where it was absurdly overstaffed, you know, so it wasn't...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4955.04,
    "end": 4959.04,
    "text": " You look and say, what does it really take to operate Twitter?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4960.04,
    "end": 4965.04,
    "text": " You know, most of what we're talking about here is a group text service at scale.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4965.04,
    "end": 4970.04,
    "text": " Like, how many people are really needed for that, you know?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4970.04,
    "end": 4978.04,
    "text": " And if you look at the... You say, like, what has been the product development over time with Twitter?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4978.04,
    "end": 4983.04,
    "text": " And you say, like, years versus product improvements, and it's like a pretty flat line.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4983.04,
    "end": 4986.04,
    "text": " So what are they doing, you know?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4986.04,
    "end": 4991.04,
    "text": " It took a year to add an edit button that doesn't work most of the time.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4991.04,
    "end": 4996.04,
    "text": " I mean, this is... I feel like there's a comedy situation here, you know?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 4996.04,
    "end": 5002.04,
    "text": " If you're not making cars, you know, it's very difficult to make cars, or get rockets to orbit.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5002.04,
    "end": 5011.04,
    "text": " So, you know, the real question is, like, how did it get absurdly overstaffed? This is insane.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5011.04,
    "end": 5015.04,
    "text": " So, anyway, that's... And it's clearly working.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5015.04,
    "end": 5017.04,
    "text": " In fact, I think it's working better than ever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5017.04,
    "end": 5025.04,
    "text": " We've increased the responsiveness of the system by, in some cases, over 80%.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5025.04,
    "end": 5034.04,
    "text": " There's a core piece of code for generating the timeline, which is run literally billions of times a day.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5034.04,
    "end": 5040.04,
    "text": " We've cut that code from 700,000 lines to 70,000 lines run.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5040.04,
    "end": 5044.04,
    "text": " Yeah, and the code efficiency by over 80%.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5044.04,
    "end": 5049.04,
    "text": " Like, meaning how much compute is necessary to render the timeline by 80%.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5049.04,
    "end": 5053.04,
    "text": " I mean, this is, you know, in four or five months.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5053.04,
    "end": 5062.04,
    "text": " We've increased the video time from roughly two minutes, or best case, ten minutes to now two hours,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5062.04,
    "end": 5064.04,
    "text": " so you can put two hours of video on Twitter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5064.04,
    "end": 5069.04,
    "text": " We'll soon be increasing that to where there's no meaningful limit.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5069.04,
    "end": 5073.04,
    "text": " We've increased the tweet length from a total of 40 characters to 4,000.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5073.04,
    "end": 5077.04,
    "text": " We'll be increasing that to where there's, again, no meaningful length to...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5077.04,
    "end": 5080.04,
    "text": " If you want to post a novel on Twitter, you should go through it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5080.04,
    "end": 5089.04,
    "text": " And, you know, as everyone saw, on Friday, we open sourced the super embarrassing recommendation algorithm,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5089.04,
    "end": 5098.04,
    "text": " which we were taking apart and eviscerating, which is exactly what I hoped they would do in pointing out all the nonsense.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5098.04,
    "end": 5107.04,
    "text": " And we're going to open source more, and we're going to subject it to public review.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5107.04,
    "end": 5114.04,
    "text": " We're also going to get criticized a lot, because people will point out all the foolish things that are happening in the code,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5114.04,
    "end": 5117.04,
    "text": " but then we'll fix it, and we'll fix it fast, and in full public view.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5117.04,
    "end": 5126.04,
    "text": " And I think that's the kind of thing that owns the public trust, you know, because, like, don't take my word for it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5127.04,
    "end": 5131.04,
    "text": " You can literally read the code, and you can read what people say about the code.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5131.04,
    "end": 5141.04,
    "text": " And you can see the improvements that we make, and you can see that, in real time, live, see it get better.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5141.04,
    "end": 5152.04,
    "text": " So my prediction is that this... I would be surprised if this does not lead the public to think, okay, this is something that I can trust.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5153.04,
    "end": 5162.04,
    "text": " I mean, I think far more trustworthy than, say, other social media organizations that have some mysterious black box,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5162.04,
    "end": 5166.04,
    "text": " that they refuse to show how it works. I mean, what are they trying to hide?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5166.04,
    "end": 5168.04,
    "text": " What are they trying to hide?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5168.04,
    "end": 5173.04,
    "text": " Because it's not good things. If they had to have something to hide, why don't they show it?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5173.04,
    "end": 5177.04,
    "text": " Because it's a proprietary business secret.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 5178.04,
    "end": 5181.04,
    "text": " Yeah, sure.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5183.04,
    "end": 5196.04,
    "text": " So we're trying to make Twitter the most trusted place on the Internet, where you can get, you know, the least untrustworthy place on the Internet.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5196.04,
    "end": 5201.04,
    "text": " I don't think anyone should trust the Internet, but maybe we can make Twitter the least untrustworthy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5202.04,
    "end": 5209.04,
    "text": " And in a way, you can see a wide range of political opinions, including ones you disagree with.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5209.04,
    "end": 5212.04,
    "text": " I think people should be exposed to things they disagree with.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5212.04,
    "end": 5216.04,
    "text": " It shouldn't just be continuous self-reinforcement.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5219.04,
    "end": 5224.04,
    "text": " That's the goal, and I think we're making some good progress in that direction.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5224.04,
    "end": 5227.04,
    "text": " I feel good about where things are going.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5228.04,
    "end": 5234.04,
    "text": " And we definitely want to have things as sort of cleaned up as possible before the elections.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5234.04,
    "end": 5240.04,
    "text": " If there's any manipulation that we're aware of, make the public aware of that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 5240.04,
    "end": 5250.04,
    "text": " And just, like I said, try to get the truth to the people as best we can.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  }
]