[
  {
    "start": 0.0,
    "end": 3.2600000000000002,
    "text": " Hello Musk, great to see you. How are you? Good. How are you?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3.2600000000000002,
    "end": 9.1,
    "text": " I mean we're here at the Texas Gigafactory the day before this thing opens.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 9.1,
    "end": 13.52,
    "text": " It's been pretty crazy out there. Thank you so much for making time a busy day.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 13.52,
    "end": 21.22,
    "text": " I would love you to help us kind of cast our minds, I don't know, 10, 20, maybe 30 years into the future and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 21.78,
    "end": 23.14,
    "text": " and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 23.14,
    "end": 29.38,
    "text": " help us try to picture what it would take to build a future that's worth getting excited about.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 29.38,
    "end": 33.9,
    "text": " You've often said it the last time you spoke with Ted, you said that that was really just a big driver.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 33.9,
    "end": 37.62,
    "text": " It's, you know, you could talk about lots of other reasons to do the what you're doing, but fundamentally",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 38.1,
    "end": 42.82,
    "text": " you want to think about the future and not think that it sucks.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 43.58,
    "end": 45.58,
    "text": " Yeah, absolutely. I think in general",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 46.019999999999996,
    "end": 51.739999999999995,
    "text": " you know, there's a lot of discussion of like this problem or that problem and a lot of people are",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 53.099999999999994,
    "end": 55.379999999999995,
    "text": " sad about the future and that they're",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 55.38,
    "end": 70.86,
    "text": " pessimistic and I think this is not great. I mean we really want to wake up in the morning and look forward to the future.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 70.86,
    "end": 72.86,
    "text": " We want to be excited about",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 73.34,
    "end": 75.34,
    "text": " what's going to happen and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 76.86,
    "end": 78.86,
    "text": " life cannot simply be about",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 79.7,
    "end": 81.7,
    "text": " sort of solving one miserable problem after another.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 82.18,
    "end": 88.18,
    "text": " So if you look forward 30 years, you know, this year, the year 2050 has been labeled by",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 89.02000000000001,
    "end": 90.78,
    "text": " scientists as this kind of",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 90.78,
    "end": 99.0,
    "text": " almost like this doomsday deadline on climate. There's a consensus of scientists, a large consensus of scientists, who believe that if we haven't",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 99.78,
    "end": 101.78,
    "text": " completely eliminated",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 101.82000000000001,
    "end": 108.7,
    "text": " greenhouse gases or offset them completely by 2050, effectively we're inviting climate catastrophe.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 108.9,
    "end": 114.78,
    "text": " Do you believe there is a pathway to avoid that catastrophe and what would it look like?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 116.54,
    "end": 121.7,
    "text": " Yeah, yeah, so I am NOT one of the doomsday people, which makes price, I",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 123.14,
    "end": 125.14,
    "text": " actually think we're on a good path.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 126.78,
    "end": 131.58,
    "text": " But at the same time, I want to caution against complacency.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 131.70000000000002,
    "end": 139.34,
    "text": " So so long as we are not complacent, as long as we are have a high sense of urgency about moving towards a sustainable",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 140.26000000000002,
    "end": 142.86,
    "text": " energy economy, then I think things will be fine.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 145.10000000000002,
    "end": 151.70000000000002,
    "text": " So I can't emphasize that enough. So long as we push hard and are not complacent,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 153.66000000000003,
    "end": 159.46,
    "text": " the future is going to be great. Don't worry about it. I mean worry about it, but if you worry about it, ironically,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 159.46,
    "end": 161.98000000000002,
    "text": " it will be a self-unfulfilling prophecy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 162.58,
    "end": 169.62,
    "text": " So like there are three elements to a sustainable energy future. One is obviously sustainable energy generation,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 169.70000000000002,
    "end": 172.10000000000002,
    "text": " which is primarily wind and solar. There's also",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 173.46,
    "end": 180.54000000000002,
    "text": " hydro, geothermal. I'm actually pro-nuclear. I think I think nuclear is fine.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 184.18,
    "end": 187.70000000000002,
    "text": " But it's going to be primarily solar and wind as these",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 189.86,
    "end": 193.74,
    "text": " primary generators of energy. The second part is you need batteries to store",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 194.14000000000001,
    "end": 199.74,
    "text": " the solar and wind energy because the sun doesn't shine all the time, the wind doesn't blow all the time. So you need a",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 200.34,
    "end": 202.34,
    "text": " lot of stationary battery packs.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 202.62,
    "end": 209.02,
    "text": " And then you need electric transport. So electric cars, electric planes, boats, and then ultimately",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 210.22,
    "end": 217.5,
    "text": " it's not really possible to make electric rockets, but you can make the propellant used in rockets using sustainable energy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 217.5,
    "end": 220.62,
    "text": " So ultimately we can have a fully sustainable energy",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 221.42,
    "end": 223.42,
    "text": " economy and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 223.66,
    "end": 228.34,
    "text": " it's those three things, solar, wind, stationary battery pack, electric vehicles.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 228.34,
    "end": 234.98,
    "text": " So then what are the limiting factors on progress? The limiting factor really will be battery cell production.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 235.3,
    "end": 241.78,
    "text": " So that's going to really be the fundamental rate driver. And then whatever the slowest element of the whole",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 242.82,
    "end": 244.82,
    "text": " lithium-ion battery cell",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 244.9,
    "end": 249.82,
    "text": " supply chain from mining and the many steps of refining to ultimately creating a battery cell",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 250.98,
    "end": 255.82,
    "text": " and putting it into a pack, that will be the limiting factor on progress towards sustainability.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 255.82,
    "end": 262.26,
    "text": " All right, so we need to talk more about batteries because the key thing that I want to understand, like there seems to be a scaling",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 262.26,
    "end": 270.62,
    "text": " issue here that is kind of amazing and alarming. You have said that, you have calculated that the amount of battery production",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 271.26,
    "end": 274.54,
    "text": " that the world needs for sustainability is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 275.9,
    "end": 283.22,
    "text": " 300 tera hours of batteries. That's the angle. Very rough numbers, and I certainly would invite others to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 283.58,
    "end": 289.22,
    "text": " check our calculations because they may arrive at a different conclusions. But in order to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 290.26,
    "end": 292.26,
    "text": " transition, not just",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 292.62,
    "end": 295.86,
    "text": " current electricity production, but also heating and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 296.5,
    "end": 297.66,
    "text": " transport,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 297.66,
    "end": 300.26,
    "text": " which roughly triples the amount of electricity that you need,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 301.3,
    "end": 303.3,
    "text": " it amounts to approximately",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 304.02000000000004,
    "end": 308.06,
    "text": " 300 tera watt hours of installed capacity. So we need to give people a sense of",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 308.7,
    "end": 315.3,
    "text": " how big a task that is. I mean, here we are at the Gigafactory. You know, this is what this is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 315.90000000000003,
    "end": 318.1,
    "text": " one of the biggest buildings in the world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 319.22,
    "end": 324.62,
    "text": " What I've read and tell me if this is still right is that the goal here is to eventually produce",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 326.62,
    "end": 328.62,
    "text": " 100 gigawatt hours of",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 329.14,
    "end": 333.98,
    "text": " batteries here a year. We're probably doing more than that, but yes, that's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 334.7,
    "end": 337.66,
    "text": " hopefully we get there within a couple of years. Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 338.38,
    "end": 340.38,
    "text": " But I mean, so that is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 341.46000000000004,
    "end": 342.84000000000003,
    "text": " 1.1 terawatt hours.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 342.84000000000003,
    "end": 348.02000000000004,
    "text": " But that's still one one-hundredth of what's needed. How much of the rest of that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 348.7,
    "end": 354.44,
    "text": " 100 is Tesla planning to take on between, let's say between now and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 355.32,
    "end": 361.04,
    "text": " 2030, 2040, when we really need to see the scale up happen.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 361.04,
    "end": 363.08,
    "text": " I mean, these are just guesses. I mean,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 363.8,
    "end": 367.16,
    "text": " so please, people just shouldn't hold me to these things. It's not like this is like",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 367.88,
    "end": 369.88,
    "text": " some, what does happen is I'll",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 370.88,
    "end": 375.36,
    "text": " make some like, you know, best guess and then people will, in five years,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 375.36,
    "end": 380.28,
    "text": " there'll be some jerk that writes an article, Elon said this would happen and it didn't happen.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 380.28,
    "end": 383.92,
    "text": " He's a liar and a fool. It's very annoying when that happens.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 384.88,
    "end": 387.6,
    "text": " So these are just guesses. This is a conversation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 388.8,
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    "text": " I think Tesla probably ends up doing 10% of that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 395.12,
    "end": 399.36,
    "text": " roughly. Let's say 2050, we have this amazing,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 399.96,
    "end": 401.96,
    "text": " you know, 100% sustainable",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 402.72,
    "end": 407.04,
    "text": " electric grid made up of, you know, some mixture of the sustainable energy sources you talked about.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 407.76,
    "end": 409.08,
    "text": " That",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 409.4,
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    "text": " same grid probably is offering the world really low cost energy, isn't it, compared with now?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 416.68,
    "end": 418.76,
    "text": " And I'm curious about, like,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 419.88,
    "end": 426.59999999999997,
    "text": " should people, are people entitled to get a little bit excited about the possibilities of that world?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 426.79999999999995,
    "end": 428.68,
    "text": " People should be optimistic about the future.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 430.15999999999997,
    "end": 430.68,
    "text": " The",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 432.91999999999996,
    "end": 435.44,
    "text": " humanity will solve sustainable energy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 435.76,
    "end": 441.71999999999997,
    "text": " It will happen. If we are, you know, continue to push hard, the future is bright",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 442.52,
    "end": 444.52,
    "text": " and good from an energy standpoint.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 446.0,
    "end": 450.88,
    "text": " And then it will be possible to also use that energy to do carbon sequestration.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 451.4,
    "end": 454.84,
    "text": " It takes a lot of energy to pull carbon out of the atmosphere just as a big, because in",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 455.4,
    "end": 457.24,
    "text": " putting it in the atmosphere to release energy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 457.24,
    "end": 461.32,
    "text": " So now, you know, obviously in order to pull it out, you need to use a lot of energy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 461.32,
    "end": 464.56,
    "text": " But if you've got a lot of sustainable energy from wind and solar,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 465.0,
    "end": 466.72,
    "text": " you can actually sequester carbon.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 466.72,
    "end": 471.96,
    "text": " So you can reverse the CO2 parts per million of the atmosphere and oceans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 472.56,
    "end": 476.2,
    "text": " And also, you can really have as much fresh water as you want.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 477.24,
    "end": 479.24,
    "text": " Earth is mostly water. We should call Earth water.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 479.32,
    "end": 481.04,
    "text": " It's 70 percent water by surface area.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 481.6,
    "end": 486.36,
    "text": " Now, most of that seawater, but it's still, it's like we just have to be able to put that land.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 486.56,
    "end": 489.64,
    "text": " Right. And with energy, you can turn seawater into",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 489.71999999999997,
    "end": 492.15999999999997,
    "text": " yes, irrigating water or whatever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 492.59999999999997,
    "end": 494.84,
    "text": " Absolutely. Yeah. At very low cost.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 495.4,
    "end": 497.08,
    "text": " Things will be good. Things will be good.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 497.08,
    "end": 501.64,
    "text": " Yes. And also the benefits right to this nonfossil fuel world where the air is cleaner.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 501.64,
    "end": 503.68,
    "text": " And yes, exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 503.68,
    "end": 507.64,
    "text": " Because like like when you when you burn fossil fuels, there's all there's all these like",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 508.8,
    "end": 512.56,
    "text": " side reactions and toxic gases of various kinds.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 513.4399999999999,
    "end": 518.28,
    "text": " And it's like sort of little particulates that are bad for your lungs.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 518.6,
    "end": 521.16,
    "text": " Like there's there's all sorts of bad things that are happening that will go away.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 521.64,
    "end": 525.28,
    "text": " And the sky will be cleaner and quieter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 526.04,
    "end": 527.0,
    "text": " Fuse is going to be good.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 527.0,
    "end": 529.8399999999999,
    "text": " I want us to switch now to think a bit about artificial intelligence.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 530.6,
    "end": 534.68,
    "text": " But the segue there, you mentioned how annoying it is when people",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 535.16,
    "end": 538.36,
    "text": " haul you up for bad predictions in the past.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 538.68,
    "end": 546.48,
    "text": " So I'm possibly going to be annoying now, but I'm curious about your timelines",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 546.48,
    "end": 550.44,
    "text": " and how you predict and how come some things are so amazing on the money and some art.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 550.44,
    "end": 555.36,
    "text": " So when it comes to predicting sales of Tesla vehicles, for example,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 555.76,
    "end": 556.64,
    "text": " I mean, you've kind of been amazing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 556.64,
    "end": 562.24,
    "text": " I think in 2014, when Tesla had sold that year 60,000 cars,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 562.6,
    "end": 566.36,
    "text": " you said 2020, I think we will do half a million a year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 566.4,
    "end": 567.88,
    "text": " Yeah, we did almost exactly half a million.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 567.88,
    "end": 569.4,
    "text": " You did almost exactly half a million.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 569.4,
    "end": 573.6,
    "text": " You were scoffed in 2014 because no one since Henry Ford",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 573.9200000000001,
    "end": 578.16,
    "text": " with the Model T had come close to that kind of growth rate for cars.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 578.88,
    "end": 583.28,
    "text": " You were scoffed and you actually hit 500,000 cars and 510,000 or whatever produced.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 584.16,
    "end": 590.28,
    "text": " But five years ago, last time you came to Ted, we I asked you about full self-driving",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 590.28,
    "end": 596.96,
    "text": " and you said, yeah, this very year, I am confident that we will have a car going from",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 597.24,
    "end": 600.4,
    "text": " L.A. to New York without any intervention.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 600.8000000000001,
    "end": 603.44,
    "text": " Yeah, I don't want to blow your mind, but I'm not always right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 604.6,
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    "text": " So what's the difference between those two?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 607.4,
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    "text": " Why has full self-driving in particular been so hard to predict?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 613.28,
    "end": 616.4,
    "text": " I mean, the thing that really got me and I think is going to get a lot of other people",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 616.4,
    "end": 621.28,
    "text": " is that there are just so many false storms with self-driving",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 622.08,
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    "text": " where you think you've got the problem, have a handle on the problem and then it,",
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    "start": 627.0,
    "end": 632.08,
    "text": " nope, turns out you just hit a ceiling and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 633.88,
    "end": 638.96,
    "text": " because if you were to plot the progress, the progress looks like a log curve.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 639.16,
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    "text": " So it's like a series of log curves.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 641.6,
    "end": 648.08,
    "text": " So most people don't know what a log curve is, I suppose, but it goes up",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 648.08,
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    "text": " sort of a fairly straight way and then it starts tailing off and you start getting",
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    "start": 654.08,
    "end": 659.64,
    "text": " diminishing returns and you're like, oh, it was trending up and now it's sort of",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 659.72,
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    "text": " curving over and you start getting to these what I call local maxima",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 665.8,
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    "text": " where you don't realize basically how dumb you were and then it happens again.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 672.04,
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    "text": " So and ultimately, these things in retrospect, they seem obvious,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 679.3199999999999,
    "end": 685.24,
    "text": " but in order to solve full self-driving properly, you actually just have to solve",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 685.24,
    "end": 692.36,
    "text": " real world AI because you said, what are the road networks designed to work with?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 692.5600000000001,
    "end": 698.88,
    "text": " They're designed to work with a biological neural net, our brains, and with vision,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 698.88,
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    "text": " our eyes. And so in order to make it work with computers, you basically need to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 707.28,
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    "text": " solve real world AI and vision because we need",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 713.92,
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    "text": " we need cameras and silicon neural nets in order to have to have self-driving",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 721.52,
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    "text": " work for a system that was designed for eyes and biological neural nets.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 727.16,
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    "text": " You know, I guess when you put it that way, it's sort of like quite obvious that the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 731.04,
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    "text": " only way to solve full self-driving is to solve real world AI and sophisticated vision.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 737.0,
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    "text": " What do you feel about the current architecture?",
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    "start": 738.4,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 744.0799999999999,
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    "text": " curve not to tail off any time soon?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 747.68,
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    "text": " Well, I mean, these may be an infamous last words, but I actually am confident that we",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 754.48,
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    "text": " will solve it this year, that we will exceed the probability of an accident.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 762.3199999999999,
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    "text": " At what point do you exceed that of the average person?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 764.68,
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    "text": " Right. I think we will exceed that this year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 767.32,
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    "text": " What are you seeing behind the scenes that gives you that confidence?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 771.04,
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    "text": " We're almost at the point where we have a high quality, unified vector space.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 775.68,
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    "text": " Like in the beginning, we were trying to do this with image recognition on individual",
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    "text": " images. But if you look at one image out of a video, it's actually quite hard to see",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 786.08,
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    "text": " what's going on with that ambiguity.",
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    "start": 789.88,
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    "text": " But if you look at a video segment of a few seconds of video, that ambiguity resolves.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So the first thing we have to do is tie all eight cameras together so they're synchronized.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " Then a very important part is to add the time dimension so that you're looking at surround",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " video and your labeling surround video.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 832.88,
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    "text": " We had to write our own labeling tools and then create an order labeling, create",
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    "start": 843.52,
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    "text": " order labeling software to amplify the efficiency of human labelers, because it's quite hard",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 848.44,
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    "text": " video clip. This is not scalable.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 856.6,
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    "text": " So basically what you have to have is you have to have surround video and that surround",
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    "text": " So you get this flywheel eventually where the order labeler is able to take in vast amounts of",
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    "text": " video and with high accuracy automatically label the video for cars, lane lines, drive",
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    "start": 886.12,
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    "text": " space. What you're saying is that you think that I mean the result of this is that you're",
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    "text": " pedestrian is walking down the road with a smaller pedestrian that maybe that smaller",
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    "text": " pedestrian might do something unpredictable or like things like that that you have to build",
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    "start": 922.2800000000001,
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    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 946.6,
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    "text": " But like if it's very common for things to be occluded.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 949.32,
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    "text": " So like if you talk about say a pedestrian walking past a truck where you saw the",
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    "text": " pedestrian start on one side of the truck then they then they're occluded by the truck.",
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    "start": 959.6800000000001,
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    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 961.0,
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    "text": " But you need to think you would know intuitively OK there's that pressure is going to pop",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 965.44,
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    "text": " out the other side most likely and the computer doesn't slow down.",
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    "start": 969.6,
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    "text": " I mean a skeptic is going to say that every year for the last five years you've kind of",
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    "text": " said well no this is the year we're confident that we're there in a year or two or you know",
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    "start": 979.9200000000001,
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    "text": " like it's it's always been about that that far away.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " But you're we've got a new architecture now you're seeing enough improvement behind the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 988.4,
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    "text": " scenes to make you not certain but but pretty confident that this by the end of this year",
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    "start": 993.9599999999999,
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    "text": " what in most not in every city in every circumstance but in many cities and circumstances",
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    "start": 999.64,
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    "text": " basically the car will be able to drive without interventions safer than a human.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1003.92,
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    "text": " Yes I mean the car currently drives me around Austin most of the time with no interventions.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1009.8,
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    "text": " So it's not like and we have over 100000 people in our full stop driving beta program.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1019.12,
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    "text": " So you can look at the videos that they post online.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1022.92,
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    "text": " OK great.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1024.24,
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    "text": " Some of them are great and some of them are a little terrifying.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1026.6399999999999,
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    "text": " Occasionally the car seems to sort of like veer off and scare the hell out of people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1031.84,
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    "text": " But it's still better.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1033.36,
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    "text": " It's still better.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1034.48,
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    "text": " But you put that but you're behind the scenes looking at the data you're seeing enough",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1038.28,
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    "text": " improvement to believe that this year timeline is real.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1043.48,
    "end": 1044.92,
    "text": " Yes that's what it seems like.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1045.16,
    "end": 1051.52,
    "text": " I mean it could be here talking again in a year it's like well yet another year went by and it didn't happen.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1051.5600000000002,
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    "text": " But I think this I think this is the year.",
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    "text": " And so in general when when people talk about Elon Elon time I mean it sounds like like you can't just have a general rule that if you predict that",
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    "start": 1060.76,
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    "text": " something will be done in six months actually what you what we should imagine is it's going to be a year or it's like 2x or 3x it depends on the type of",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1068.1200000000001,
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    "text": " prediction some things I guess things involving software you know A.I.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 1072.6000000000001,
    "end": 1076.88,
    "text": " whatever are fundamentally harder to predict than than others.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1076.92,
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    "text": " Is there an element that you actually deliberately make aggressive prediction timelines to drive people to be ambitious.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1084.96,
    "end": 1086.16,
    "text": " Without that nothing gets done.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 1086.68,
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    "text": " Well I generally believe in terms of internal timelines that we want to set set the most aggressive timeline that we can.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1092.72,
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    "text": " Because there's sort of like a law of guesses expansion where for schedules where whatever time you set it's it's not going to be less than that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1102.52,
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    "text": " It's very rare that it'll be less than that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And as far as predictions are concerned what has to happen in the media is that they will report all the wrong ones and ignore all the right ones.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1112.72,
    "end": 1112.92,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1113.44,
    "end": 1120.08,
    "text": " And or you know when writing an article about me I've had a long career in multiple industries.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1120.24,
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    "text": " If you if you list my sins I sound like the worst person on earth but if you put those against the my you know the things I've done right it makes much more sense.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1128.56,
    "end": 1140.32,
    "text": " So it's actually like the longer you do anything the more mistakes that you will make cumulatively which if you sum up those mistakes will sound like I'm the worst predictor ever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1140.56,
    "end": 1148.56,
    "text": " But for example for Tesla vehicle growth I said I think we're 50 percent and we've done 80 percent.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1149.56,
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    "text": " So but they don't mention that one.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1152.6399999999999,
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    "text": " So I'm not sure what my exact track record is on predictions. They're more optimistic than pessimistic but they're not all optimistic.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1159.96,
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    "text": " Some of them are exceeded probably more or later but they they do come true.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 1168.76,
    "end": 1170.96,
    "text": " It's very rare that they do not come true.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1171.44,
    "end": 1181.96,
    "text": " It's sort of like you know if there's some radical technology prediction the point is not that it was a few years late but that it happened at all.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1183.08,
    "end": 1185.3600000000001,
    "text": " That's the that's the more important part.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1185.8400000000001,
    "end": 1200.2,
    "text": " So it feels like at some point in the last year seeing the progress on understanding that the A.I. the Tesla A.I. understanding the world around it led to a kind of an aha moment.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1200.56,
    "end": 1210.1200000000001,
    "text": " Because you really surprised people recently when you said probably the most important product development going on at Tesla this year is this robot Optimus.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 1211.0800000000002,
    "end": 1218.76,
    "text": " Many companies out there have tried to put out these robots have been working on them for years and so far no one has really cracked it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1218.8,
    "end": 1222.6000000000001,
    "text": " There's no mass adoption robot in people's homes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1222.6000000000001,
    "end": 1228.4,
    "text": " There are some in manufacturing but it's like I would say no one's kind of really cracked it.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1228.4,
    "end": 1235.8400000000001,
    "text": " What is it something that happened in the development of force of driving that gave you the confidence to say you know what we could do something special.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1237.48,
    "end": 1238.52,
    "text": " Yeah exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1238.5600000000002,
    "end": 1246.2,
    "text": " So you know it took me a while to realize that in order to solve self driving you really needed to solve real world A.I.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1247.6000000000001,
    "end": 1257.48,
    "text": " And the point at which you solve real world A.I. for a car which is really a robot on four wheels you can then generalize that to a robot on legs as well.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1258.08,
    "end": 1267.0,
    "text": " The two hard parts I think like it's obviously companies like Boston Dynamics have shown that it's possible to make quite compelling sometimes alarming robots right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1267.88,
    "end": 1276.1200000000001,
    "text": " You know so this is from a sensor is an actuator standpoint it's certainly been demonstrated by many that it's possible to make a human right robot.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1276.4,
    "end": 1287.32,
    "text": " The thing that the things that are currently missing are enough intelligence enough intelligence for the robot to navigate the real world and do useful things without being explicitly instructed.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1287.96,
    "end": 1294.16,
    "text": " So the missing things are basically real world intelligence and scaling up manufacturing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1294.6,
    "end": 1296.96,
    "text": " Those are two things that Tesla is very good at.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1297.1200000000001,
    "end": 1305.08,
    "text": " And so then we basically just need to design the specialized actuators and sensors that are needed for a human right robot.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1306.24,
    "end": 1308.64,
    "text": " People have no idea this is this is going to be bigger than the car.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1308.64,
    "end": 1312.64,
    "text": " So let's dig into exactly that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1312.64,
    "end": 1322.2,
    "text": " I mean in one way it's actually an easier problem than full self driving because you instead of an object going along at 60 miles an hour which it gets it wrong what someone will die.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1322.64,
    "end": 1330.24,
    "text": " This is an object that's engineered to only go what three or four or five miles an hour walking speed and so a mistake is that there aren't lives at stake.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1330.2800000000002,
    "end": 1331.76,
    "text": " There might be embarrassment at stake.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1331.8000000000002,
    "end": 1333.5200000000002,
    "text": " As long as the A.I. doesn't take it over and.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1335.2,
    "end": 1335.72,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1335.96,
    "end": 1337.0800000000002,
    "text": " And we're resting our sleep or something.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1337.3999999999999,
    "end": 1338.04,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1339.76,
    "end": 1349.84,
    "text": " But let's talk about I mean I think the first applications you've mentioned are probably going to be manufacturing but eventually the vision is to to have these available for people at home.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1350.56,
    "end": 1365.76,
    "text": " If you had a robot that really understood the 3D architecture of your house and knew where every object in that house was or was supposed to be and could recognize all those objects.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1366.08,
    "end": 1373.6,
    "text": " I mean that that's kind of amazing isn't it like like that the kind of thing that you could ask a robot to do would be what like tidy up.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1374.04,
    "end": 1375.4,
    "text": " Yeah absolutely.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1376.36,
    "end": 1379.28,
    "text": " Or make dinner I guess mow the lawn.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1379.32,
    "end": 1383.76,
    "text": " Take take a cup of tea to grandma and show her family pictures.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1384.48,
    "end": 1387.84,
    "text": " Exactly. Take care of my grandmother and make sure.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1387.8799999999999,
    "end": 1388.52,
    "text": " Yeah exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1388.72,
    "end": 1391.32,
    "text": " I mean it could recognize obviously recognize everywhere in the home.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1391.36,
    "end": 1391.6,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1392.0,
    "end": 1393.56,
    "text": " Could play catch with your kids.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1393.96,
    "end": 1398.28,
    "text": " Yes I mean obviously we need to be careful that this doesn't become dystopian situation.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1400.52,
    "end": 1408.72,
    "text": " Like I think one of the things that's going to be important is to have a localized ROM chip on the robot that cannot be updated over the air.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1409.6399999999999,
    "end": 1418.1599999999999,
    "text": " Where if you will for example would it say stop stop stop that would if anyone said that then the robot would stop you know type of thing and that's not updatable remotely.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1419.0,
    "end": 1421.0,
    "text": " I think it's going to be important to have safety features like that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1421.6,
    "end": 1423.56,
    "text": " Yeah that sounds wise.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1423.76,
    "end": 1425.8,
    "text": " And I do think there should be a regulatory agency for AI.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1426.0,
    "end": 1427.0,
    "text": " I've said that for many years.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1427.2,
    "end": 1431.4,
    "text": " I don't love being regulated but I you know I think this is an important thing for public safety.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1432.2,
    "end": 1433.08,
    "text": " Let's come back to that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1433.12,
    "end": 1440.92,
    "text": " But I'm just I don't think many people have really sort of taken seriously the notion of you know a robot at home.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1440.96,
    "end": 1446.92,
    "text": " I mean at the start of the computing revolution you know Bill Gates said there's going to be a computer in every home and people at the time said yeah whatever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1446.96,
    "end": 1447.92,
    "text": " Who would even want that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1448.64,
    "end": 1449.8400000000001,
    "text": " There's a computer in our pocket.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1449.88,
    "end": 1460.2,
    "text": " Do you think there will be basically like in say say 2050 or whatever that like a robot in most homes is what they will be and people will love them and count on them.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1460.64,
    "end": 1461.76,
    "text": " You have your own butler basically.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1462.76,
    "end": 1465.92,
    "text": " Yeah you'll have your sort of buddy robot probably.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1466.24,
    "end": 1466.48,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1467.04,
    "end": 1473.2,
    "text": " I mean how much of a buddy do you like do you do how many applications you thought is that you know can you have a romantic partner sex part.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1473.24,
    "end": 1475.2,
    "text": " I mean a lot of money available.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1476.2,
    "end": 1480.16,
    "text": " I mean I did promise the Internet that I'd make cat goals how we could make a robot cat goal.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1482.0800000000002,
    "end": 1482.4,
    "text": " I mean.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1482.64,
    "end": 1483.0,
    "text": " You can't.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1483.04,
    "end": 1484.0,
    "text": " I mean I've never seen to that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1487.04,
    "end": 1491.28,
    "text": " So yeah I guess it'll be what what whatever people want really.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1492.4,
    "end": 1494.1200000000001,
    "text": " What sort of timeline should we be.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1495.4,
    "end": 1500.72,
    "text": " Thinking about of the first the first models that are actually made and sold.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1501.6000000000001,
    "end": 1511.16,
    "text": " Well you know the first units that we tend to make are for jobs that are dangerous boring repetitive and things that people don't want to do.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1511.56,
    "end": 1516.04,
    "text": " And you know I think we'll have like an interesting prototype sometime this year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1516.2,
    "end": 1529.48,
    "text": " We might have something useful next year but I think quite likely within at least two years and then we'll see rapid growth year over year of the usefulness of the human right robots and decrease in cost and scaling up production.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1529.84,
    "end": 1538.68,
    "text": " Initially just selling to businesses or when do you picture yourself you'll start selling them where you can buy your parents one for Christmas or something.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1539.4,
    "end": 1540.48,
    "text": " I'd say less than 10 years.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1540.8,
    "end": 1543.56,
    "text": " Yeah how how how help me on the economics of this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1543.6,
    "end": 1546.6,
    "text": " So what do you picture the cost of one of these being.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1547.2,
    "end": 1552.92,
    "text": " Well I think the cost is actually not going to be crazy high like less than a car.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1553.16,
    "end": 1556.96,
    "text": " Initially things will be expensive because it'll be new technology at low production volume.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1557.52,
    "end": 1561.0,
    "text": " The complexity and cost of a car is greater than that of a human right robot.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1561.64,
    "end": 1567.48,
    "text": " So I would expect that it's going to be less than a car or at least equivalent to a cheap car.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1567.64,
    "end": 1572.32,
    "text": " So even if it starts at 50 K within a few years it's down to 20 K or lower or whatever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1573.64,
    "end": 1577.64,
    "text": " And maybe for home they'll get much cheaper still but but but think about the economics of this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1577.72,
    "end": 1596.6000000000001,
    "text": " If you can replace a thirty thousand dollar forty thousand dollar a year worker which you have to pay every year with a one time payment of twenty five thousand dollars for a robot that can work longer hours a pretty rapid replacement of certain types of jobs.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1596.64,
    "end": 1598.5600000000002,
    "text": " How worried should the world be about that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1599.3600000000001,
    "end": 1602.3600000000001,
    "text": " I wouldn't worry about the sort of putting people out of a job thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1602.76,
    "end": 1607.4,
    "text": " I think we're actually going to have and already do have a massive shortage of labor.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1607.64,
    "end": 1618.0,
    "text": " So I think I think we will have not not people out of work but actually still a shortage of labor even in the future.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1618.88,
    "end": 1623.5200000000002,
    "text": " But this really will be a world of abundance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1623.6000000000001,
    "end": 1628.3600000000001,
    "text": " Any goods and services will be available to anyone who wants them.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1628.8000000000002,
    "end": 1631.5200000000002,
    "text": " It'll be so cheap to have goods and services will be ridiculous.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1631.6399999999999,
    "end": 1643.0,
    "text": " And presumably it should be possible to imagine a bunch of goods and services that can't profitably be made now but could be made in that in that world courtesy of legions of robots.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1643.28,
    "end": 1646.56,
    "text": " Yeah it will be a world of abundance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1646.76,
    "end": 1652.08,
    "text": " The only scarcity that will exist in the future is that which we decide to create ourselves as humans.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1652.56,
    "end": 1659.52,
    "text": " OK so A.I. is is allowing us to imagine a differently powered economy that will create this abundance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1660.24,
    "end": 1661.6399999999999,
    "text": " What are you most worried about going wrong.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1662.12,
    "end": 1670.56,
    "text": " Well like I said A.I. and robotics will bring out what might be termed the age of abundance.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1671.36,
    "end": 1678.24,
    "text": " Other people have used this word and that this is my prediction will be an age of abundance for everyone.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1678.24,
    "end": 1698.96,
    "text": " I guess there's the dangers would be the artificial general intelligence or digital super intelligence decouples from a collective human well and goes in the direction that for some reason we don't like whatever direction might go.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1698.96,
    "end": 1711.32,
    "text": " You know that's what sort of the idea behind Neuralink is to try to more tightly couple collective human well to the to digital super intelligence.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1713.48,
    "end": 1719.8,
    "text": " And also along the way solve a lot of brain injuries and spinal injuries and that kind of thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1719.8400000000001,
    "end": 1727.92,
    "text": " So even if it doesn't succeed in the greater call I think it will succeed in the goal of alleviating brain and spine damage.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1728.3600000000001,
    "end": 1738.92,
    "text": " So the spirit there is that if we're going to make these A.I.s that are so vastly intelligent we ought to be wired directly to them so that we ourselves can have the superpowers more more directly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1739.6000000000001,
    "end": 1748.04,
    "text": " But that doesn't seem to avoid the risk that those superpowers might turn ugly in an unintended way.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1748.16,
    "end": 1756.16,
    "text": " I think it's a risk. I agree. I don't. I'm not saying that I have some certain answer to that risk.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 1756.28,
    "end": 1774.72,
    "text": " I'm just saying like maybe one of the things that would be good for ensuring that the future is one that we want is to more tightly couple the human world collective human well to digital intelligence.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1776.4,
    "end": 1785.72,
    "text": " The issue that we face here is that we're already a cyborg. If you think about it the computers are an extension of ourselves.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1786.72,
    "end": 1798.3600000000001,
    "text": " And when we die there's like we have like a digital ghost all of our text messages and social media and e-mails and it's quite eerie actually when someone dies and everything online is still there.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1798.92,
    "end": 1807.0,
    "text": " But you say like what's the limitation? What is it that inhibits human machines, the biosis? It's the data rate.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1807.3200000000002,
    "end": 1812.44,
    "text": " When you communicate especially with the phone you're moving your thumbs very slowly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 1812.52,
    "end": 1826.48,
    "text": " So you're moving your two little meat sticks at a rate that's maybe 10 bits per second optimistically 100 bits per second and computers are communicating at the gigabit level beyond.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1826.52,
    "end": 1837.52,
    "text": " Have you seen evidence that the technology is actually working that you've got you've got a richer sort of higher bandwidth connection if you like between external electronics and a brain than has been possible before?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1837.8,
    "end": 1852.52,
    "text": " Yeah, so the I mean the fundamental principles of reading neurons sort of doing read write on neurons with tiny electrodes have been demonstrated for decades.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1853.28,
    "end": 1864.8,
    "text": " So it's not like this is the concept is new. The problem is that there's no product that works well that you can go and and buy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1864.92,
    "end": 1876.68,
    "text": " So it's all sort of in research labs and it's not it's like there's always like some cord sticking out of your head and it's quite gruesome and it's it's really.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1876.68,
    "end": 1887.6000000000001,
    "text": " There's no good product that actually does a good job and is high bandwidth and safe and something you'd actually that you could buy and would want to buy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1887.96,
    "end": 1903.5600000000002,
    "text": " So but the way to think of the neural device is kind of like a Fitbit or an Apple watch that's where we take out a sort of a small section of skull about the size of a quarter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1904.04,
    "end": 1929.9199999999998,
    "text": " Replace that with what in many ways really is very much like a Fitbit Apple watch or some kind of smartwatch thing and but with with tiny tiny wires very very tiny wires to wires so tiny it's hard to even see them and it's very important to have very tiny wires that you when they're implanted they don't they don't damage the brain.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1930.08,
    "end": 1932.84,
    "text": " How far are you from putting these into humans?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1934.2,
    "end": 1942.8799999999999,
    "text": " Well we we have put in our FDA application to have the aspiration we do to the first human implant this year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1943.36,
    "end": 1947.8,
    "text": " The first uses will be for neurological injuries of different kinds.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 1947.8799999999999,
    "end": 1957.6,
    "text": " Yes but rolling the clock forward and imagining when when people are actually using these for their own enhancement let's say for the enhancement of the world.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1958.5200000000002,
    "end": 1964.68,
    "text": " How clear are you in your mind as to what it will feel like to have one of these inside your head.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 1965.3200000000002,
    "end": 1985.4,
    "text": " Well I do want to emphasize we're at an early stage and so it really will be many years before we have anything approximating a high bandwidth neural interface that allows for a human symbiosis.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 1986.4,
    "end": 2002.52,
    "text": " And for many years we will just be solving brain injuries and spinal injuries for probably a decade and that this is not something that will suddenly one day it'll will have this incredible sort of whole brain interface.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2002.52,
    "end": 2031.84,
    "text": " It's going to be like at least a decade of really just solving brain injuries and spinal injuries and really I think you can solve a very wide range of brain injuries including severe depression, morbid obesity, sleep, it's potentially schizophrenia like a lot of things that cause great stress to people restoring memory in all the people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2031.8400000000001,
    "end": 2038.64,
    "text": " If you can pull that off that is that that's the app I will sign up for I would please hurry actually.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2038.64,
    "end": 2044.7600000000002,
    "text": " Yeah I mean the the emails that we get at Neuralink are heartbreaking.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2045.16,
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    "text": " I mean they'll send us just tragic you know where someone was in the prime of life and they had an accident on a motorcycle and someone who's 25 is you know it can't even feed themselves.",
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    "text": " And this is something we could fix.",
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    "text": " But you have you have said that A.I. is one of the things you're most worried about and that Neuralink may be one of the ways where we can keep abreast of it.",
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    "text": " Yes it's it's there's there's the short term thing which I think is helpful on an individual human level with injuries and then the long term thing is an attempt to address the civilizational risk of",
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  {
    "start": 2091.2,
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    "text": " A.I. by bringing digital intelligence and biological intelligence closer together.",
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    "text": " I mean if you think of the how the brain works today they're really kind of two layers to the brain there's the limbic system and the cortex you've got the kind of animal brain where it's kind of like the fun part really.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And most of Twitter operates by the way.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " Yeah I mean we're I think like to move instead of this like we're like we're like somebody you know stuck a computer on a monkey.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2117.4,
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    "text": " Right. You know so we're like if you gave a monkey a computer that's our cortex but we still have a lot of monkey instincts.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2124.92,
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    "text": " Right. So which we then try to rationalize it's no it's not a monkey instinct it's something more important than that but it's often just really a monkey instinct.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2132.1600000000003,
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    "text": " We're just monkeys with a computer stuck stuck in our brain.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2137.64,
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    "text": " So even though the cortex is sort of the smart or the intelligent part of the brain the thinking part of the brain.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2145.84,
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    "text": " People are quite I've not yet met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or their cortex they're quite happy having both everyone wants both parts of their brain.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And people really want their phones and their computers which are really the tertiary the third part of your intelligence it's just that it's it's like say the bandwidth the rate of communication with that tertiary layer is slow.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And it's just a very tiny straw to this tertiary layer and we want to make that tiny straw a big highway.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And I'm definitely not saying that this is going to solve everything or this is you know it's the only thing it's it's it's something that that that might be helpful and worst case scenario I think we solve some important brain injury spinal injury issues and that's still a great outcome.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2197.88,
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    "text": " Right best case scenario we may discover new human possibility telepathy you've spoken of in a collection with with with a loved one you know full memory and a much faster thought process and maybe all these things.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " It's very cool.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " If I were to take down earth we need to plan B let's let's shift our attention to to to space we spoke last time about reusability and you had just demonstrated that spectacularly for the first time since then you've gone on to build this monster rocket and star ship.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2234.6,
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    "text": " Which kind of changes the rules of the game and in spectacular ways tell us tell us about star ship yes so it's extremely fundamental so that the holy grail of of rocketry or space transport is full and rapid reusability this has never been achieved the closest that anything's come is our Falcon 9 rocket where we are able to recover the the first stage the boost stage which is probably about 60%.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2264.6,
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    "text": " Of the cost of the vehicle of the whole launch maybe 70% and we've not done that over 100 times so with star ship we will be recovering the entire thing that's what these that's the goal right and and and more of a recovering it in such way that it can be immediately refloat whereas with falconine we still need to do some amount of refurbishment to the booster and to the ferry windows.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " So with star ship the design goal is immediate reflight right so you just you just refill propellants and go again and the this is gigantic it just just as it would be in any other mode of transport and it's and the main design is is and is to basically take what a hundred plus people at a time plus a bunch of things that they need to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " mars so talk first we'll talk talk about that piece what what is your latest timeline one for the first time a star ship goes to mars presumably without people but just equipment to with people three the sort of okay 100 people at a time let's let's go sure well and and just put the cost thing into perspective the the the cost of expected cost of star ship putting",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2354.6,
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    "text": " a hundred tons into orbit is significantly less than what it would have cost or what it did cost to put out our tiny falcon one rocket into orbit just as the cost of flying a 747 around the world is is less than the cost of a small airplane you know a small airplane that was thrown away so it's really pretty mind-boggling that that the giant thing cost less way less than the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2384.6,
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    "text": " small thing so it it doesn't use sort of exotic propellants or things that are difficult to obtain on mars it uses methane as fuel and it's primarily auctions is sort of roughly 77 78 percent oxygen by weight and Mars has a co2 atmosphere and has water ice which is co2 plus h2o so you can make ch4 methane and o2 oxygen on Mars what is really one of the first tasks on mars will be to create",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2414.6,
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    "text": " yes a fuel plant that can create the fuel for the return trips of many star ships yes and and actually it's mostly I mean oxygen plant but it but it's it's because it's it's called 78 percent oxygen 22 percent fuel but but the fuel is a simple fuel that is easy to create on Mars and and and well that many other parts of the solar system so basically and it's all propulsive landing no parachutes nothing thrown away",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2444.6,
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    "text": " it has a heat shield that's capable of entering on Earth or Mars we could even potentially go to Venus but it's not you don't go there it's Venus as hell almost literally but you you could it's a generalized method of transport to to anywhere in the solar system because the point which have a penalty phone Mars you can then travel to the asteroid belt and to the moon",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2474.6,
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    "text": " of Jupiter and then to Saturn and and ultimately anywhere in the solar system right but you're made for your main focus and SpaceX's main focus is still Mars like that that is that is that is the mission that is that is where most of the effort will go or you are you are you imagining a much broader array of uses even in the coming you know the first decade or so of uses of this",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2504.6,
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    "text": " where we could go for example to other places and solar solar system to explore perhaps NASA wants to use the rocket for that reason yeah NASA NASA is planning to use a starship to return to the moon to return people to the moon and so we're very honored that NASA's has chosen us to do this so but I'm saying it is a it is a generalized it's a it's a general solution to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2534.6,
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    "text": " getting anywhere in the greater solar system it's not suitable for going to another star system but it is a general solution for transport anywhere in the in the solar system before it can do any of that it's got to demonstrate it can get into orbit you know around Earth yeah what's what's what's what's what's your latest advice on that on the timeline for that it's looking promising for us to have an orbital launch attempts in in a few months so we",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2564.6,
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    "text": " we're actually integrating the will be integrating the engines into the booster for the first orbital flight starting in about a week or two and the launch complex itself is ready to go so assuming we get regulatory approval I think we could have a an orbital launch attempt within a few months and a radical new technology like this presumably there is real risk on those early",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2594.6,
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    "text": " yeah yeah yeah like I mean the joke I make all the time is that excitement is guaranteed success is not guaranteed but excitement certainly is but the lot the last I saw in your timeline you you've slightly put back the expected date to put the first human on Mars till 2029 I want to say yeah I mean so so let's see I mean we are we have built a production system for",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2624.6,
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    "text": " you planning to make actually well we're currently expecting to make a booster and a ship roughly every well initially roughly every couple months and hopefully by by this year one every month so it's giant rockets but a lot and a lot of them just in terms talking in terms of rough orders of magnitude in order to create a self-sustaining city on Mars I think the you will need something on the order of a thousand ships then we just need a we just need a Helen",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2654.6,
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    "text": " of Sparta I guess on Mars this is not in most people's heads the planet that launched thousand ships that's that's nice but this is not in most people's heads this picture that you have in your mind that so there's there's there's basically a two-year window you can only really fly to Mars conveniently every two years yes you are still you are picturing that during during the 2030s every couple years something like a thousand starships take off each containing a hundred or",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2684.6,
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    "text": " more people I mean that that that picture is just completely mind-blowing to me yeah that sense of this Armada of humans going yeah I mean like Battlestar Galactica the fleet of departs and you think that it can basically be funded by people spending maybe a couple hundred grand on a ticket to Mars is that is that price about where it where it has been well I think if you say like what's what's that what's required in order to get enough people and enough cargo to Mars to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2714.6,
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    "text": " build a self-sustaining city and it's where you have an intersection of sets of people who want to go because I think only a small percentage of humanity will want to go and can afford to go or get sponsorship in some manner that intersection of sets I think needs to be a million people or something like that and so it's what what what can a million people afford or get sponsorship for or because I think governments will also pay for it and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2743.64,
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    "text": " people could take out loans and but but I think at the point at which you say okay okay like if if moving to Mars costs are probably gonna take a hundred thousand dollars then I think you know almost anyone can can work and save up and and and eventually have a hundred thousand dollars and be able to go to Mars if they want we want to make it available to anyone who wants to go yeah so it and and very important to emphasize that Mars is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2773.64,
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    "text": " it's it's it's so difficult but it's on camera especially in the beginning will not be luxurious it will be dangerous cramped difficult hard work it's kind like the Shackleton ad for going to the Antarctic which I think it's actually not real but but it sounds real and it's cool.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2794.0,
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    "text": " cramped, you might not make it back, it's difficult, it's hard work, that's the sales",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2800.98,
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    "text": " pitch.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2801.98,
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    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2802.98,
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    "text": " But you will make history.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2803.98,
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    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2804.98,
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    "text": " But it'll be glorious.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 2805.98,
    "end": 2806.98,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2806.98,
    "end": 2810.9,
    "text": " Also, on that kind of launch rate you're talking about, over two decades, you could get your",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2810.9,
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    "text": " million people to Mars, essentially.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2814.34,
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    "text": " Whose city is it?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2815.34,
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    "text": " Is it NASA's city?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2816.34,
    "end": 2817.34,
    "text": " Is it SpaceX's city?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2817.34,
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    "text": " It's the people of Mars' city.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " The reason for this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2822.58,
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    "text": " I have to say, we feel like, well, why do this thing?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2826.7799999999997,
    "end": 2833.46,
    "text": " I think this is important for maximizing the probable lifespan of humanity or consciousness.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2833.46,
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    "text": " Human civilization could come to an end for external reasons, like a giant meteor, or",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2838.44,
    "end": 2848.86,
    "text": " super volcanoes, or extreme climate change, or World War III, or, you know, any one of",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 2848.86,
    "end": 2851.74,
    "text": " a number of reasons.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2852.5000000000005,
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    "text": " But the probable lifespan of civilization or consciousness as we know it, which we should",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2858.0600000000004,
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    "text": " really view as this very delicate thing, like a small candle in a vast darkness, that is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2864.9,
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    "text": " what appears to be the case.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " We're in this vast darkness of space, and there's this little candle of consciousness",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " that's only really come about after four and a half billion years.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2879.7000000000003,
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    "text": " And it could just go out.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2881.2200000000003,
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    "text": " I think that's powerful, and I think a lot of people will be inspired by that vision.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 2885.3,
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    "text": " And so the reason you need the million people is because there has to be enough people there",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 2889.38,
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    "text": " to do everything that you need to survive.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2893.42,
    "end": 2903.34,
    "text": " Really the critical threshold is, if the ships from Earth stop coming for any reason, does",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2903.34,
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    "text": " the Mars city die out or not?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "text": " And so we have to pass, you know, people talk about the great filters, the things that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2913.2200000000003,
    "end": 2918.3,
    "text": " perhaps, you know, we talk about the Fermi Paradox and where are the aliens, and like,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 2918.3,
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    "text": " well, maybe the aliens didn't, there is various great filters that the aliens didn't pass,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2922.78,
    "end": 2927.0600000000004,
    "text": " and so they eventually just ceased to exist.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2927.0600000000004,
    "end": 2930.7000000000003,
    "text": " And one of the great filters is becoming a multi-planet species.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2930.7000000000003,
    "end": 2934.9800000000005,
    "text": " So we want to pass that filter.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2934.98,
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    "text": " And I'll be long dead before this is, you know, a real, real thing, before it happens.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2941.62,
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    "text": " But I'd like to at least see us make great progress in this direction.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2947.42,
    "end": 2953.26,
    "text": " Given how tortured the Earth is right now, how much we're beating each other up, shouldn't",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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  {
    "start": 2953.26,
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    "text": " there be discussions going on with everyone who is dreaming about Mars to try to say,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2959.78,
    "end": 2967.02,
    "text": " we've got to once, once in a civilization's chance to make some new rules here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 2967.02,
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    "text": " Is that, should someone be trying to lead those discussions to figure out what it means",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2972.02,
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    "text": " for this to be the people of Mars' city?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 2974.42,
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    "text": " Well, I think ultimately this will be up to the people of Mars to decide what, how they",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2980.1000000000004,
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    "text": " want to rethink society.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2983.14,
    "end": 2989.9,
    "text": " There's certainly a risk there, and hopefully the people of Mars will be more enlightened",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2989.9,
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    "text": " and will not fight amongst each other too much.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 2992.98,
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    "text": " I mean, I have some recommendations, but which people of Mars may choose to listen to or",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 2999.54,
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    "text": " not.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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    "start": 3000.54,
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    "text": " I mean, I would advocate for more of a direct democracy, not a representative democracy,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
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    "start": 3005.14,
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    "text": " and laws that are short enough for people to understand, and where it is harder to create",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3011.18,
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    "text": " laws than to get rid of them.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3014.54,
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    "text": " Coming back a bit nearer term, I'd love you to just talk a bit about some of the other",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3017.8199999999997,
    "end": 3024.14,
    "text": " possibility space that Starship seems to have created.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
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    "start": 3024.14,
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    "text": " Given suddenly we've got this ability to move 100 tons plus into orbit, so we've just launched",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " the James Webb Telescope, which is an incredible thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "text": " It's an unbelievable app.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3035.3399999999997,
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    "text": " That was two decades.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3036.3399999999997,
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    "text": " An exquisite piece of technology.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
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  {
    "start": 3037.3399999999997,
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    "text": " An exquisite piece of technology, but people spent two years trying to figure out how to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3040.54,
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    "text": " fold up this thing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3041.54,
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    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3042.54,
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    "text": " It's a three-ton telescope.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
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    "start": 3043.54,
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    "text": " We can make it a lot easier if you've got more volume and mass.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3047.66,
    "end": 3055.08,
    "text": " Let's ask a different question, which is how much more powerful a telescope could someone",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3055.08,
    "end": 3058.82,
    "text": " design based on using Starship, for example?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3058.82,
    "end": 3064.22,
    "text": " I mean, roughly, I'd say it's probably an order of magnitude more resolution if you've",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3064.22,
    "end": 3069.02,
    "text": " got 100 tons and 1,000 cubic meters of volume, which is roughly what we have.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3069.02,
    "end": 3072.38,
    "text": " What about other explorations through the solar system?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3072.38,
    "end": 3074.58,
    "text": " I mean, I'm ... Europa?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3074.58,
    "end": 3076.38,
    "text": " Well, Europa's so ...",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3076.38,
    "end": 3077.38,
    "text": " Big question mark.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3077.38,
    "end": 3078.38,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3078.38,
    "end": 3079.38,
    "text": " There's an ocean there, right?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3079.38,
    "end": 3080.38,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3080.38,
    "end": 3081.98,
    "text": " What you really want to do is to drop a submarine into the ocean.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3081.98,
    "end": 3082.98,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3082.98,
    "end": 3087.82,
    "text": " Maybe there's some squid civilization, cephalopod civilization under the ice of Europa.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3087.82,
    "end": 3088.82,
    "text": " That would be pretty interesting.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3088.82,
    "end": 3094.5,
    "text": " I mean, Elon, if you could take a submarine to Europa and we see pictures of this thing",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3094.5,
    "end": 3098.58,
    "text": " being devoured by a squid, that would honestly be the happiest moment of my life.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3098.58,
    "end": 3099.58,
    "text": " Pretty wild, yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3099.58,
    "end": 3103.66,
    "text": " That would be ... What other possibilities are out there?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3103.66,
    "end": 3109.56,
    "text": " It feels like if you're going to create 1,000 of these things, they can only fly to Mars",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3109.56,
    "end": 3110.56,
    "text": " every two years.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3110.56,
    "end": 3112.96,
    "text": " What are they doing the rest of the time?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3112.96,
    "end": 3118.8199999999997,
    "text": " It feels like there's this explosion of possibility that I don't think people are really thinking",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3118.8199999999997,
    "end": 3119.8199999999997,
    "text": " about.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3119.8199999999997,
    "end": 3120.8199999999997,
    "text": " I mean, I don't know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3120.8199999999997,
    "end": 3121.8199999999997,
    "text": " We've certainly got a long way to go.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3121.8199999999997,
    "end": 3125.74,
    "text": " As you alluded to earlier, we still have to get to orbit.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3126.7400000000002,
    "end": 3134.0600000000004,
    "text": " After we get to orbit, we have to really prove out and refine full and rapid reusability.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3134.0600000000004,
    "end": 3139.46,
    "text": " That'll take a moment.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3139.46,
    "end": 3140.78,
    "text": " I do think we will solve this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3140.78,
    "end": 3146.0600000000004,
    "text": " I'm highly confident we will solve this at this point.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3146.0600000000004,
    "end": 3150.6200000000003,
    "text": " Do you ever wake up with the fear that there's going to be this Hindenburg moment for SpaceX",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3150.6200000000003,
    "end": 3153.98,
    "text": " where ... We've had many Hindenburg ... Well, we've",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3153.98,
    "end": 3157.98,
    "text": " never had Hindenburg moments with people, which is a very important big difference.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3157.98,
    "end": 3158.98,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3158.98,
    "end": 3159.98,
    "text": " There is.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3159.98,
    "end": 3160.98,
    "text": " We've blown up quite a few rockets.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3160.98,
    "end": 3165.18,
    "text": " There's a whole compilation online that we've put together and others have put together.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3165.18,
    "end": 3167.82,
    "text": " It's showing rockets are hard.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3167.82,
    "end": 3173.34,
    "text": " The sheer amount of energy going through rocket is ... Well, it's aligned.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3173.34,
    "end": 3175.1,
    "text": " Getting out of both gravity well is difficult.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3175.1,
    "end": 3183.54,
    "text": " We have a strong gravity and a thick atmosphere, and Mars, which is less than 40% of ... It's",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3183.54,
    "end": 3188.14,
    "text": " like 37% of Earth's gravity and has a thin atmosphere.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3188.14,
    "end": 3193.1,
    "text": " The ship alone can go all the way from the surface of Mars to the surface of Earth, whereas",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3193.1,
    "end": 3197.94,
    "text": " getting to Mars requires a giant booster and orbital refilling.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3197.94,
    "end": 3204.42,
    "text": " Elon, think more about this incredible array of things that you're involved with.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3204.42,
    "end": 3211.98,
    "text": " I keep seeing these synergies, to use a horrible word, between them.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3211.98,
    "end": 3218.9,
    "text": " For example, the robots you're building from Tesla could possibly be pretty handy on Mars,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3218.9,
    "end": 3221.14,
    "text": " doing some of the dangerous work and so forth.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3221.14,
    "end": 3224.7400000000002,
    "text": " Maybe there's a scenario where your city on Mars doesn't need a million people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3224.7400000000002,
    "end": 3228.7,
    "text": " It needs half a million people and half a million robots.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3228.7,
    "end": 3230.02,
    "text": " That's a possibility.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3230.02,
    "end": 3235.14,
    "text": " Maybe the boring company could play a role helping create some of the subterranean dwelling",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3235.14,
    "end": 3239.06,
    "text": " spaces that you might need.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3239.06,
    "end": 3244.5,
    "text": " Back on planet Earth, it seems like a partnership between boring company and Tesla could offer",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3244.5,
    "end": 3252.18,
    "text": " an unbelievable deal to a city to say, we will create for you a 3D network of tunnels",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3252.18,
    "end": 3259.06,
    "text": " populated by robotaxes that will offer fast, low-cost transport to anyone.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3259.06,
    "end": 3262.18,
    "text": " Full self-driving may or may not be done this year.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3262.18,
    "end": 3266.42,
    "text": " In some cities, some are like Mumbai, I suspect won't be done for a decade.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3266.42,
    "end": 3268.86,
    "text": " Some places are more challenging than others.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3268.86,
    "end": 3275.58,
    "text": " But today, with what you've got, you could put a 3D network of tunnels under there.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3275.58,
    "end": 3278.06,
    "text": " Oh, if it's just in a tunnel, that's a solved problem, basically.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3278.06,
    "end": 3279.06,
    "text": " Exactly.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3279.06,
    "end": 3281.06,
    "text": " Full self-driving is a solved problem.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3281.06,
    "end": 3284.94,
    "text": " To me, there's amazing synergy there.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3284.94,
    "end": 3291.78,
    "text": " With Starship, Gwynne Shotwell talked about, by 2028, having, from city to city, transport",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3291.78,
    "end": 3292.78,
    "text": " on planet Earth.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3292.78,
    "end": 3297.7000000000003,
    "text": " That's a real possibility.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3297.7000000000003,
    "end": 3302.1400000000003,
    "text": " The fastest way to get from one place to another, if it's a long distance, is a rocket.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3302.1400000000003,
    "end": 3307.82,
    "text": " It's basically an ICBM with a landing to leave the nuke.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3307.82,
    "end": 3314.38,
    "text": " Because it's an ICBM, it has to land probably offshore, because it's loud.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3314.38,
    "end": 3321.1000000000004,
    "text": " Why not have a tunnel that then connects to the city with Tesla as well?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3321.2599999999998,
    "end": 3325.7799999999997,
    "text": " Neuralink, if you're going to go to Mars, having a telepathic connection with loved",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3325.7799999999997,
    "end": 3329.18,
    "text": " ones back home, even if there's a time delay.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3329.18,
    "end": 3335.5,
    "text": " If these are not intended to be connected, by the way, there certainly could be some synergies.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3335.5,
    "end": 3340.74,
    "text": " Surely, there is a growing argument that you should actually put all these things together",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3340.74,
    "end": 3348.86,
    "text": " into one company, and just have a company devoted to creating a future that's exciting,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3348.86,
    "end": 3350.42,
    "text": " and let 1,000 flowers bloom.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3350.7400000000002,
    "end": 3351.7400000000002,
    "text": " Have you been thinking about that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3353.46,
    "end": 3360.94,
    "text": " I mean, it is tricky, because Tesla is a publicly traded company, and the investor base of Tesla",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3360.94,
    "end": 3365.38,
    "text": " and SpaceX, and certainly Boring Company and Neuralink are quite different.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3365.38,
    "end": 3367.98,
    "text": " Boring Company and Neuralink are tiny companies.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3367.98,
    "end": 3369.1800000000003,
    "text": " Right, by comparison.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3369.1800000000003,
    "end": 3371.46,
    "text": " The audience may, yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3371.46,
    "end": 3374.34,
    "text": " Tesla's got 110,000 people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3374.34,
    "end": 3377.3,
    "text": " SpaceX, I think, is around 12,000 people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3377.3,
    "end": 3382.0600000000004,
    "text": " Boring Company and Neuralink are both under 200 people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3382.0600000000004,
    "end": 3387.26,
    "text": " So they're little tiny companies, but they will probably get bigger in the future.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3387.26,
    "end": 3389.94,
    "text": " They will get bigger in the future.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3389.94,
    "end": 3392.46,
    "text": " It's not that easy to sort of combine these things.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3392.46,
    "end": 3397.78,
    "text": " Traditionally, you've said that for SpaceX especially, you wouldn't want it public, because",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3397.78,
    "end": 3403.6200000000003,
    "text": " public investors wouldn't support the craziness of the idea of going to Mars or whatever.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3403.6200000000003,
    "end": 3404.6200000000003,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3404.62,
    "end": 3411.22,
    "text": " Making like multi-planatories is outside of the normal time horizon of Wall Street",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3411.22,
    "end": 3413.7,
    "text": " analysts, to say the least.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3413.7,
    "end": 3416.98,
    "text": " I think something's changed, though.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3416.98,
    "end": 3422.98,
    "text": " What's changed is that Tesla is now so powerful and so big and throws off so much cash that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3422.98,
    "end": 3428.54,
    "text": " you actually could connect the dots here, just tell the public that X billion dollars",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3428.54,
    "end": 3433.8599999999997,
    "text": " a year, whatever your number is, will be diverted to the Mars mission.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3433.86,
    "end": 3439.3,
    "text": " I suspect you'd have massive interest in that company, and it might unlock a lot more",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3439.3,
    "end": 3441.78,
    "text": " possibility for you now.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3441.78,
    "end": 3452.1400000000003,
    "text": " I mean, I would like to give the public access to ownership of SpaceX, but the overhead associated",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3452.1400000000003,
    "end": 3457.1800000000003,
    "text": " with public company is high.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3457.1800000000003,
    "end": 3461.1,
    "text": " So I mean, as a public company, you're just constantly sued.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3461.1,
    "end": 3469.22,
    "text": " It does occupy a fair bit of time and effort to deal with these things.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3469.22,
    "end": 3474.38,
    "text": " Right, but you would still only have one public company, it would be bigger, and have more",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3474.38,
    "end": 3477.86,
    "text": " things going on, but instead of being on four boards, you'd be on one.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3477.86,
    "end": 3481.18,
    "text": " I'm actually not even on the neural link of boring company boards.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3481.18,
    "end": 3482.18,
    "text": " Oh, well.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3482.18,
    "end": 3483.18,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3483.18,
    "end": 3488.38,
    "text": " I don't really attend the SpaceX board meetings, we only have two a year, and I just stop by",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3488.38,
    "end": 3490.1800000000003,
    "text": " and chat for an hour.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3490.1800000000003,
    "end": 3495.26,
    "text": " So the board overhead for a public company is much higher.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3495.26,
    "end": 3496.26,
    "text": " Right.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3496.26,
    "end": 3499.34,
    "text": " I think some investors probably worry about how your time is being split, and they might",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3499.34,
    "end": 3501.6600000000003,
    "text": " be excited by that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3501.6600000000003,
    "end": 3507.38,
    "text": " Anyway, I just woke up the other day thinking just there are so many ways in which these",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3507.38,
    "end": 3514.38,
    "text": " things connect, and just the simplicity of that mission, of building a future that is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3514.38,
    "end": 3520.94,
    "text": " worth getting excited about, might appeal to an awful lot of people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3520.94,
    "end": 3528.34,
    "text": " Elon, you are reported by Forbes and everyone else as now the world's richest person.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3528.34,
    "end": 3529.34,
    "text": " That's not a sovereign.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3529.34,
    "end": 3537.6600000000003,
    "text": " I think it's fair to say that if somebody is like the king or de facto king of a country,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3537.6600000000003,
    "end": 3540.06,
    "text": " they're wealthier than I am.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3540.06,
    "end": 3541.06,
    "text": " But it's just harder to measure.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3542.06,
    "end": 3550.02,
    "text": " So $300 billion, I mean, your net worth on any given day is rising or falling by several",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3550.02,
    "end": 3551.02,
    "text": " billion dollars.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3551.02,
    "end": 3552.02,
    "text": " How do you say it?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3552.02,
    "end": 3553.02,
    "text": " It's bonkers.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3553.02,
    "end": 3554.02,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3554.02,
    "end": 3557.06,
    "text": " I mean, how do you handle that psychologically?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3557.06,
    "end": 3560.18,
    "text": " There aren't many people in the world who have to even think about that.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3560.18,
    "end": 3566.46,
    "text": " I actually don't think about that too much, but the thing that is actually more difficult,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3566.46,
    "end": 3575.94,
    "text": " and that does make sleeping difficult, is that every good hour or even minute of thinking",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3575.94,
    "end": 3583.7400000000002,
    "text": " about Tesla and SpaceX has such a big effect on the company that I really try to work as",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3583.7400000000002,
    "end": 3592.58,
    "text": " much as possible to the edge of sanity, basically, because Tesla is getting to the point where",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3592.58,
    "end": 3598.74,
    "text": " \u2013 probably we'll get to the point later this year \u2013 where every good, every high",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3598.74,
    "end": 3610.5,
    "text": " quality minute of thinking is a million dollars to impact on Tesla, which is insane.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3610.5,
    "end": 3620.86,
    "text": " So I mean, the basic \u2013 if Tesla is doing of a sort of $2 billion a week, let's say,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3620.86,
    "end": 3629.1,
    "text": " in revenue, it's sort of $300 million a day, seven days a week.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3629.1,
    "end": 3637.54,
    "text": " If you can change that by 5% in an hour's brainstorm, that's a pretty valuable hour.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3637.54,
    "end": 3643.82,
    "text": " I mean, there are many instances where a half hour meeting \u2013 I was able to improve the",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3643.82,
    "end": 3650.58,
    "text": " financial outcome of the company by $100 million in a half hour meeting.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3650.58,
    "end": 3655.74,
    "text": " There are many other people out there who can't stand this world of billionaires.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3655.74,
    "end": 3663.46,
    "text": " They are hugely offended by the notion that an individual can have the same wealth as,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3663.46,
    "end": 3667.66,
    "text": " say, a billion or more of the world's poorest people.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3667.66,
    "end": 3673.62,
    "text": " If they examine sort of the \u2013 I think there's some axiomatic flaws that are leading to",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3673.62,
    "end": 3675.38,
    "text": " that conclusion.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3675.7400000000002,
    "end": 3681.38,
    "text": " For sure, it would be very problematic if I was consuming billions of dollars a year",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3681.38,
    "end": 3684.38,
    "text": " in personal consumption, but that is not the case.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3684.38,
    "end": 3686.7400000000002,
    "text": " In fact, I don't even own a home right now.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3686.7400000000002,
    "end": 3690.26,
    "text": " I'm literally staying at friends' places.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3690.26,
    "end": 3695.3,
    "text": " If I travel to the Bay Area, where most of Tesla engineering is, I stay in my \u2013 I basically",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3695.3,
    "end": 3698.7000000000003,
    "text": " rotate through friends' spare bedrooms.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3698.7000000000003,
    "end": 3699.7000000000003,
    "text": " I don't have a yacht.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3699.7000000000003,
    "end": 3702.1400000000003,
    "text": " I really don't take vacations.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3702.14,
    "end": 3708.42,
    "text": " So it's not as though there's \u2013 that my personal consumption is high.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3708.42,
    "end": 3711.94,
    "text": " I mean, the one exception is a plane, but if I don't use the plane, then I have less",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3711.94,
    "end": 3714.06,
    "text": " hours to work.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3714.06,
    "end": 3721.1,
    "text": " I personally think you have shown that you are mostly driven by really quite a deep sense",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3721.1,
    "end": 3722.1,
    "text": " of moral purpose.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3722.1,
    "end": 3723.1,
    "text": " Yeah.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3723.1,
    "end": 3730.1,
    "text": " Like you've tried \u2013 your attempts to solve the climate problem have been as powerful",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3730.1,
    "end": 3732.38,
    "text": " as anyone else on the planet that I'm aware of.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3732.38,
    "end": 3736.54,
    "text": " And I actually can't understand \u2013 personally, I can't understand the fact that you get",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3736.54,
    "end": 3742.46,
    "text": " all this criticism from the left about, oh, my God, he's so rich, that's disgusting.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3742.46,
    "end": 3747.94,
    "text": " When climate is their issue, philanthropy is a topic that some people go to.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3747.94,
    "end": 3748.94,
    "text": " Philanthropy is a hard topic.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3748.94,
    "end": 3751.54,
    "text": " Like how do you think about that?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3751.54,
    "end": 3756.62,
    "text": " I think if you care about the reality of goodness instead of the perception of it, philanthropy",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3756.62,
    "end": 3759.42,
    "text": " is extremely difficult.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3759.42,
    "end": 3763.54,
    "text": " SpaceX, Tesla, Neurolink, and Boring Company are philanthropy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3763.54,
    "end": 3769.66,
    "text": " If you say philanthropy is love of humanity, they are philanthropy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3769.66,
    "end": 3772.66,
    "text": " Tesla is accelerating sustainable energy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3772.66,
    "end": 3777.2200000000003,
    "text": " This is a love of full entropy.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3777.2200000000003,
    "end": 3781.62,
    "text": " SpaceX is trying to ensure the long-term survival of humanity with multi-planet species.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3781.62,
    "end": 3783.7400000000002,
    "text": " This is love of humanity.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3783.7400000000002,
    "end": 3792.42,
    "text": " You know, Neurolink is to help solve brain injuries and existential risk with AI, love",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3792.42,
    "end": 3793.42,
    "text": " of humanity.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3793.42,
    "end": 3798.2200000000003,
    "text": " Boring Company is trying to solve traffic, which is health for most people, and that",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3798.2200000000003,
    "end": 3800.34,
    "text": " also is love of humanity.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3800.34,
    "end": 3809.5800000000004,
    "text": " How upsetting is it to you to hear this constant drumbeat of billionaires, my God, Elon Musk,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3809.5800000000004,
    "end": 3810.5800000000004,
    "text": " oh, my God.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3810.5800000000004,
    "end": 3813.38,
    "text": " Like is that \u2013 do you just shrug that off?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3814.02,
    "end": 3815.02,
    "text": " Does it actually hurt?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3815.02,
    "end": 3819.46,
    "text": " I mean, at this point, it's wardrobe for ducks back.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3819.46,
    "end": 3825.34,
    "text": " You know, and I'd like to, as we wrap up now, just pull the camera back and just think",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3825.34,
    "end": 3829.5,
    "text": " you're a father-in-law of seven surviving kids and \u2013",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3829.5,
    "end": 3833.7400000000002,
    "text": " Well, I mean, I'm trying to say a good example because the birth rate on Earth is so low",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3833.7400000000002,
    "end": 3840.34,
    "text": " that we're facing civilizational collapse unless the birth rate returns to a sustainable",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3840.34,
    "end": 3841.34,
    "text": " level.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3841.58,
    "end": 3844.98,
    "text": " Yeah, you've talked about this a lot, that depopulation is a big problem, and we \u2013",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3844.98,
    "end": 3845.98,
    "text": " Yes.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3845.98,
    "end": 3846.98,
    "text": " People don't understand how big a collapse \u2013",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3846.98,
    "end": 3851.1400000000003,
    "text": " Population collapse is one of the biggest threats to the future of human civilization,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3851.1400000000003,
    "end": 3853.1400000000003,
    "text": " and that is what is going on right now.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3853.1400000000003,
    "end": 3857.1800000000003,
    "text": " What drives you on a day-to-day basis to do what you do?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3857.1800000000003,
    "end": 3864.58,
    "text": " I guess \u2013 like, I really want to make sure that there is a good future for humanity and",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3864.58,
    "end": 3870.7400000000002,
    "text": " that we're on a path to understanding the nature of the universe, the meaning of life,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3870.7400000000002,
    "end": 3873.78,
    "text": " why are we here, how do we get here.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3873.78,
    "end": 3882.0200000000004,
    "text": " And in order to understand the nature of the universe and all these fundamental questions,",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3882.0200000000004,
    "end": 3887.34,
    "text": " we must expand the scope and scale of consciousness.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3887.34,
    "end": 3890.7400000000002,
    "text": " Certainly it must not diminish or go out, we certainly won't understand this.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3890.7400000000002,
    "end": 3898.3,
    "text": " So I would say I'm motivated by curiosity more than anything and just a desire to think",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3898.3,
    "end": 3903.98,
    "text": " about the future and not be sad, you know.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3903.98,
    "end": 3904.98,
    "text": " And are you?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3904.98,
    "end": 3906.6200000000003,
    "text": " Are you not sad?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3906.6200000000003,
    "end": 3908.6200000000003,
    "text": " I'm sometimes sad.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3908.6200000000003,
    "end": 3915.86,
    "text": " Mostly I'm feeling, I guess, relatively optimistic about the future these days.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3915.86,
    "end": 3920.02,
    "text": " There are certainly some big risks that humanity faces.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3920.02,
    "end": 3926.34,
    "text": " I think the population collapse is a really big deal that I wish more people would think",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3926.34,
    "end": 3933.7000000000003,
    "text": " about because the birth rate is far below what's needed to sustain civilization at",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3933.7000000000003,
    "end": 3935.98,
    "text": " its current level.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3935.98,
    "end": 3943.94,
    "text": " And there's obviously \u2013 we need to take action on climate sustainability, which is",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3943.94,
    "end": 3951.34,
    "text": " being done, and we need to secure the future of consciousness by being a multi-planet species.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3951.34,
    "end": 3955.38,
    "text": " We need to address the \u2013 essentially it's important to take whatever actions we can",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3955.38,
    "end": 3960.94,
    "text": " think of to address the existential risks that affect the future of consciousness.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3960.94,
    "end": 3964.38,
    "text": " There's a whole generation coming through who seem really sad about the future.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3964.38,
    "end": 3966.58,
    "text": " What would you say to them?",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3966.58,
    "end": 3972.42,
    "text": " Well, I think if you want the future to be good, you must make it so.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3972.42,
    "end": 3976.26,
    "text": " Take action to make it good, and it will be.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 1"
  },
  {
    "start": 3976.26,
    "end": 3979.82,
    "text": " Elon, thank you for all this time.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3979.82,
    "end": 3981.58,
    "text": " That is a beautiful place to end.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3981.58,
    "end": 3983.06,
    "text": " Thanks for all that you're doing.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  },
  {
    "start": 3983.06,
    "end": 3983.56,
    "text": " You're welcome.",
    "speaker": "SPEAKER 2"
  }
]